Tree of Savior Forum

Class Balance is a disaster

Are we supposed to just class change to whatever has been severely overbuffed every few months? Is this a joke?

I have been working hard for months to progress, then a patch comes along, and suddenly another class (fencers) are literally doubling the damage of an identically geared swordsman of other class combinations.

No other class combination can even begin to compete. All of my work seems pointless unless I change classes, too, and there are no plans to change anything in the next few months. No buffs, no nerfs, nothing.

Can’t compete in WBR, can’t compete in Joint Strike, which makes it difficult to even find a party for Joint Strike. Fencers get picked first for every other type of content whether it’s raids or singu, making it significantly more difficult to get parties for those.

A fencer with Moringponia Pyktis outperforms other classes with full KARALIENE. That’s billions in silver of a gear difference.

It feels pointless investing in a character and gear if I’m just going to have to switch every time “balance” changes get made to the game. Frankly, this makes me not want to play the game at all.

Get it together IMC.


nobody telling you or forcing you to compete
and if you dare to enter the competition you must be wary
that on top of you are whales, bigger whales, rmters, hardcore vet who can just freely switching mains with no big deals cause they are filthy rich and the game let them to (atributte transfer, art transfer,gear transfer,ark and so on)
in my server a guy with lv5 main wiz seal,+26 glacia staff and trinket, +16 glacia armors, luciferi triukas, and probably any other investment, switching to archer main just because he think that archer is the current strongest now, seems like no biggie for him
so if stick to your build or switching metas is still a concern for you, honestly, dont dare to enter the competition, or at least expect to be at the tops, cause most our metas are proved to be strongest not only in itos but from ktos/ktest players who are ahead of us
also nobody telling you to switching to meta
i love clerics, i only play clerics even though clerics treated like rubbish, and i still enjoy playing it
many players are stick to what they love and wait for buff of their favorite classes they never get


A class combination with bonuses/debuffs vs bosses and mostly low AAR/melee attacks is suited in contents that are about dealing with bosses. How surprising.
Other swordsmen offer better mobility or better aoe attacks, it’s not like they haven’t got shortcomings. But i guess having those as meta during the past years was perfectly fine, it’s only an issue when fencers do exactly what they’re supposed to do.

That said, they’re already directly and indirectly nerfing rapier classes in the latest kToS patch, halving olè effect (and freeing up 10 points, but there isn’t much to spend them into) and making preparation and epee garde work only on pierce attacks again (despite the non-existence of a third rapier class, making it so whatever is chosen either won’t make use of the rapier buffs, or just has a couple skills usable).
There are also changes to other classes there, by the way.

All i want to still complain about this last rebalance fiesta is that they nerfed the Templar shield( 40% ->30% + max level 15 ->10) and did not touch Mortal Slash or the Forge SFR:

Images of sorrow:
Mortal Slash Level 1 be like:
now Max level 15:
If you set max enchance passive(537%) plus art level 30 you will get 739% x 3 … fantastic.

And here is the Forge, keep in mind that it has fixed accuracy that was not adjusted since rebuild so it will miss a LOT.
max passive (116%) and if you are mad for art: 161%

Templar has always been a mess. I have no faith that they will fix it anytime soon. Kinda like alchemist (rip homunculus) and squire (deadly combo OP)

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you kinda missed the point. he’s saying that balancing the classes is pointless if imc is gonna over buff a class and make the other classes like batshit.

in my server a guy with lv5 main wiz seal,+26 glacia staff and trinket, +16 glacia armors, luciferi triukas, and probably any other investment, switching to archer main just because he think that archer is the current strongest now, seems like no biggie for him

Read this again. and try to see what’s the problem.

Every mmo has competition, you should compete via player skills and not where whales changes to the overly buffed class and compete with themselves. The population is bad enough and IMC is still doing ■■■■ to encourage new players to play this game. vAiVorA leVeL 4


The problem is not that some builds are better than bossing at others, assuming they’re weaker in other areas to compensate. The problem is that IMC doesn’t do subtelty, and rather than adjusting progressively they do big changes either when strengthening or weakening a class. I can agree that rapier users needed a bit of improvement, but they just went overboard and force people to switch build if they want a chance to compete. This much is obvious even to IMC seeing last KTest patch, but to compensate they’re increasing raw damage by 30% for bunch of classes, which is equally bonkers in my opinion even though I stand to benefit from it.

And since there are monthes between each patch on iToS, we have to live with unbalanced situations for a while, like Ein Sof making your party almost unkillable map wide.

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But that’s exactly the point - if anybody is able to compete versus classes that are specialized in a certain role - versus bosses in this case - then what’s the point of those classes to begin with?
A fencer/matador doesn’t have the mobility of a lancer or the aoe attacks of a two handed sword class. But neither they’re supposed to, it’s not their role. To give them similar capabilities would means denying other classes of their specialty.
The closest class to a boss dealer role other than matador would be a dragoon, but even that isn’t as specialized so far.
That said, this is all theoretical. In practice we do have BBs still performing with good results…it’s just that most people decided to jump classes rather than even trying fighting for it.

And let me make a digression about fencers that needed “a bit of improvement”.
That’s kinda limitative - it was a swamp of bad ideas and bandaids before.
Fencer started as a low-atk, crit-based class. Then the crit mechanics changed and devs had to put band-aid over band-aid just to have something that somehow worked (until they finally decided to rework rapier classes and clean up all the mess). .
Matador required aggro for its bonuses but was completely unable to ever get it since it was balanced over those buffs, and by the nature of aggro itself it hampered any other matador that was fighting there as well (allies included).
And there still isn’t a third rapier class - something that makes equiparating start-up with epee garde and preparation quite puzzling, if not completely stupid, but that’s exactly what they did. Two handed sword classes have got like a single non-slash attack per class. Fencers don’t have a third rapier class to start with (and even the second one - matador - is mostly about buffs) so those fencer buffs either just won’t work with the third class, or you have to settle for hoplite and getting stabbing and pierce and nothing else as there is nothing else that works with rapiers there.
Sure, barbarian is strong - mostly due to frenzy and leather armor art - but in fencer’s case there aren’t really other logical choices even if one wanted to.
Right now the direction they’re taking seems to be about compartimentalizing the classes in terms of weapons and restricting their buffs, and it’s not a bad idea balance-wise…but it only works when the classes to do so exist to begin with.


I would be fine with the classes having “roles” if the game’s design were a little different. As it is, the entire game is very focused on bossing.

WBR, Boruta, Joint Strike & Raids are all the “tough” content. All bossing content. The only thing that sorta qualifies as ‘tough’ content that isn’t boss centric is singu, but what’s important there more than anything is raw damage output and CC.

Hop/Lancer/Goons are supposed to be dedicated bossing classes. They have bossing-centric VVs, skills that are made to hit bosses harder, but now they’re literally half as good at bossing as Fencers. LOL. They also really don’t have very good mobility. They don’t get much movement speed, and they have a lot of very long animations that lock them in place for sometimes 3 seconds or more at a time. They also don’t have very good AoE ratio.

So, essentially, Fencer has taken over that role and does it literally 200% better, while also being better at everything else because of the raw damage difference.

Hop/Cata/Barb has the mobility and much better AoE, but still pales in comparison damage wise by such a degree that they’re far inferior for the majority of content, and singu is very unforgiving to physical DPS classes, so they’re not even particularly desired there. They’re basically just a CM expert, but pyro/ele/tao wiz and phys cleric are already much, much better at that. They’re the AoE classes.

Basically, there is nothing that hop/cata/goon/lancer do better than any other class.

So by buffing two classes that needed it, they actually just traded its place with two other classes. It didn’t really improve the situation, it just shuffled pieces around the board. Completely failed to improve the overall situation at all.

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I agree that currently the game focuses too much upon bosses, but that’s another issue entirely.
Being specialized versus bosses and large monsters is how devs wanted the class to develop upon. They could change the whole design again, like making it a crit-based class (and that’s the route i expected when they talked about reworks initially). But nerfing it or making other comparable in that same field would make the class useless - as it’s pointless being specialized if anybody else is already good as you and has got other strong points as well.

They never had that role to begin with. A skill (pierce) increasing hits versus larger monsters on hoplite and another (dethrone) reducing mspd and aspd of bosses on dragoon don’t make them boss classes. Matador hits many enemies with the bull, but it’s not like anybody would call it an aoe class just for a single skill.
The most impactful thing they’ve got versus bosses is the dragoon vaivora, but even that should be seen as an added bonus, given it’s not part of the base design of the class, but just an equipment. That’s why i said the dragoon is more specialized than others…but you can’t compare it to a class like matador in which 5 skills out of 7 either priotitize bosses/large monsters or have additional effects versus those.
Besides, by design lancers are more suited toward pvp, given the added mobility, the ability to remove shields, shield buffs, unmount enemies and remove magic circles. Actually doing that proficently is another issue, but the design is there.
And i should add, the actual bane of lancers was the change/nerf on Initiate and how that change was overlooked balance-wise. The flat defense reduction it provided was massive given the amount of defense enemies had at the time, that’s why the class was so strong. No wonder everything has gone haywire for them, they just weren’t balanced correctly after such a change.

Cata was relatively good for farming - i still use it when i look for vaivoras in field. It’s just that they made field farming meaningless. Beside that, they’re kind of an all-arounder - mounted class, so slightly better tankiness due to pet. Good mobility thanks to trot, some bonuses to mounted skills and some skills better versus small and medium enemies or knocked-down enemies, can remove magic circles, and has got some aoe attacks, but indeed, it hasn’t got anything in which it excels or even a definite role, neither now or before.
And hoplite suffers from the same issue - it’s there mainly to buff other spear classes and debuff enemies via spear lunge, it adds a couple attack skills, but that’s it.
Same for barbarian - it offers good buffs and the leather art is really good…but it doesn’t specialize in anything. Hoplites are even lucky that sharp spear won’t be changed to work only on pierce attacks like they did witg preparation and epee garde, else even they would work even worse with barbarian after that recent patch, by the way.
So what do you expect to end up with by pairing such classes? You get a jack of all trades by design, that’s what.

I won’t deny that the overall situation needs improvement, but some of that has to do with outdated designs or designs that weren’t pve-focused to begin with. Simply changing SFR here and there isn’t a solution.

Just play Wizard.

Wizard can Tank, DPS, and Heal.
Shadowmancer, Featherfoot, Taoist/X

I don’t mind having classes be specialized. What I hate about this game is the difficulty of obtaining and upgrading equipment, involving A LOT of RNG. And what did IMC did to fix the issue? Absolutely nothing, they just gave people free stuff to compensate, instead of balancing the farming side of the game.

And without serious gears or a meta class, you basically can’t play. Classes should be balanced. Many of them are weaker than others and there are classes that are way too OP between patches - then suddenly they get nerfed, instead of the others getting buffed to match them. I remember this game being great when level 330 was the maximum level. I understand scaling beyond that became difficult, but the game went downhill after that.

And it doesn’t help that servers like Fedimian are completely dead, in GTW some territories stay unconquered, because people have no interest. There are just 2 guilds that can do Boruta after the patch a few months ago. I just don’t want to play this game anymore.

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Maybe they need to merge servers?

It’s very simple… Do as they did to peltasta, if you pick and use their buff your DPS gets a huge penalty from buffs, create a passive similar for other classes, ex: reduced healing and more dmg for clerics… I’m very upset with the way they did Murmilo, I was excpeting something like a sand debuff is applied that can be useful in pve and pvp scenarios, all other classes with weapon specialization have their dps booster, as hoplite, BB, and for shield Nak Muay, very amazing balance patch, I dreamed with that day that I need to mix a mma fighter with a gladiator that wears a tin helmet…

i still use it when i look for vaivoras in field.

What? You can’t field farm Vaivoras.

I think you’re totally missing the point that the whole game is centered around bossing, and any class that is worse at bossing is basically just a worse class right now. Making the argument that any class should just be better at bossing is de facto an argument that some classes should just be better at the game.

No one is field farming, because it’s worthless. The merc badge rate is pitiful and a total waste of time.

Any class can CM well, so that’s irrelevant.

What’s left is Singularity, raids, JSR & WBR.

If a class is worse at doing raids/JSR/WBR, then it’s just an inferior class, end of story. Any talk of “roles” is irrelevant.

Unless they actually diversify the content to make any role besides bossing useful, then it’s ridiculous for one class to be better at bossing than the other.

It’s like putting a Van in an F1 car race, then talking about how it’s so great at transporting so many people at a time while those f1 cars can “only” transport 1 person at a time. That’s pointless. The point of F1 car races isn’t hauling people, it’s about going faster than the other cars.

what? are you 100% sure? because i got vaivora bow from field farm

You can. I got 2 from field farm.

I haven gotten any VVR from soloing the new Solo Challenge mode tho. Can someone possibly clarify with me if the new Solo CM mode can drop vvr lol

im going to burn 60 harvest ticket in solo mode we ll see

That will soon change to if a class could not mob well, its locked out of daily content too.

Got VVR SM last week.