Tree of Savior Forum

Civil Exp rate/curve talk

General Discussion
#21

There are specific theory crafting combinations that I’ve thought up and really want to try, so it’s not like I’d be playing 888 lolol.

However your point about crowded and empty maps is true, and I’ve definitely thought that would be a problem. I feel like the best solution would be to add a bunch of end level zones compared to the early level ones. This way, we could solve the problem of crowding, and people who specialize in different things could find the correct spot to level, ie Turn Undead Pala with a map full of demon and undead monsters. As is, a lot of people have already been complaining about how there are only a few grinding spots for each level zone, and that it’s very linear. I feel like this could solve the problem of limited grinding areas and the exp debate.

I think this would be the best way to appease both sides, but I kind of also feel like at this point IMC isn’t even reading any of this stuff lololol, or even if they are, they aren’t going to bother suggesting it to the team, because most of the plans are already done. They would need to make quite a few new maps for this. >_>

#22

I didn’t bring up 100, Tsumo did and I just ran with it.

I don’t want to grind for the rest of my life, or for infinitely but that isn’t what Tree of Savior is suggesting (Or us). There is a fast difference between making leveling last for awhile, and making it last forever.

If people want to play a game where they can pay to hit the cap they can play games like World of Warcraft, and if they want to play games where you can hit cap in 3-4 days then practically any MMO will work for you.

Ragnarok Online took awhile and people loved it. People loved it so much that they followed it here to Tree of Savior. Lets not make Tree of Savior like almost every other MMO. Lets let Tree of Savior go after the niche it is seeking.

#23

RO didn’t take nearly as long as people like to think it did. You could double cap within a month at a fairly casual rate. The real RO grind was for cards. As it stands we have no equivalent system

#24

I am sure noone that says " I could get level max in ragnarok within a month" did that on their very first characters. The reason is exactly the grind for cards you mentioned.

This game so far is actually quite casual ( apart from the grind). It didnt require us to look for gear before trying to progress with levels like Rag did.

#25

All this makes a lot of sense on both sides. I kinda agree, if it takes me 3 weeks to max out a Main then i’ll be pretty disappointed.

On the other side of that if Im grinding to 500 freaking hundred as some people are saying, there better be content ready at EVERY bracket. I dont want to be Lv. 178 needing to farm level 160 mobs to get to 190 because everything else worth fighting is lv 200.

#26

you don’t need to be max lvl to enjoy the game

2 Likes
#27

You don’t need to be stuck at level 30 to enjoy the game.

#28

should probably kill some monsters then

2 Likes
#29

@cronolvl99
Strangely, I can still remember I calculated the time and xp I needed in iRO as a hunter for my last level when turtle island got out.

I was doing approximately 1~1.2m xp an hour and needed 99m xp for lv 99. So approximately 99 hours of grind in TI1 (taking in account eventual 1%xp loss of death)… Not the fastest but it was pretty fast comparing to the context…

I decided to spend 2 straight weeks to finish it. (like 7-8%/hour a day) It was hard and fun as a hunter switching those composite bows and elemental arrows but hell I did suffer a bit… (and my social life a lot XD)
I don’t think we could consider that as “not hardcore” in those modern times :smile:

Well back on topic, I think the harder it is to level the greater the sense of achievement will be…
And if the way up there is fun with lot of meetings, it will be an amazing adventure !
Also everyone can play at his own rythmn too…
It’s just my opinion though…

#30

You know something is wrong when the only thing that comes to mind when you’re leveling is “i’ll get one job/base level after X blue mobs” and after like 30+ minutes it changes to X-1 because you didn’t found one. I never considered the regular mob as source of exp (not that they aren’t, they definitly add to the bar).
Honestly you could simply transfer some of the exp you would get from blue mobs while keeping them relevent, throw it inside regular ones and it would feel so much better (making them more frequent with reduced exp sounds alright aswell).

#31

Who is stuck at level 30? In 2ish days I got to 45. In seven days others got to 100. If someone is stuck at 30, the game isn’t the problem.

But for those people who want to hit the cap within 2 days I believe World of Warcraft has an option to get to level 90 with a push of a button. And Echo of Soul is a newish fun MMO with a focus on PVP and you can probably hit the cap in about 3-4 days if you try.

We don’t have to make Tree of Savior an easy mode game like nearly every other MMO out there. Especially since Tree of Savior is aiming at the niche gaming community who enjoys this style of play :wink:

#32

Actually, it did. Once content was added to the game ( biolabs, thors, etc ) that had appropriate exp, sure it was far easier. The original game, however, especially when trans first came out, took an exceptional amount of time to get to max level.

Just like @Faile is saying, the average experience gained per hour for most classes was around 1m an hour ( Stings, Turtle Island, Magma, Prison ). The only exception was those who took control of a Guild Dungeon and had a priest/wiz or priest/tank/wiz party.

I played a bard/minstrel, and as a bard spent 10-12 hours a day lvling from 98~99, and did it in 9 days. As a minstrel ( which with the extra ablities you were given, you could manage 2.2~2.5m/hr ), I spent close to 16 hours a day lvling 98~99, and did it in 9 days again. Typically, playing 8 hours a day ( non-trans ), you could solidly gain 2 levels a day from 70-80, 1 level a day from 80-89, and then from there it was slowly more and more since the 90~99 curve became pretty harsh. 91~95 took about 2 days each, 96 - 3 days, 97 - 5 days, 98 - 6 days. Add that all together ( accounting for about 2 days to get to 70 ) and you get around 50 days of hardcore lvling to get to 99. Just for the first time, and then you have to do it again ( at a 3.5x rate ) as transcendent. Adjust for the extra exp gain due to extra abilities, and for the exp rate increase, and you come out with about 65 days of hardcore lvling to get to 99 again ( This was how long it took me ).

That’s about 4 months of at least 8 hour a day grinding in order to get to max level. I’m not exaggerating at all, this is how long it took me according to screenshots ( which I took every level ), and I was considered to be someone who lvl’d pretty fast at the time ( because yes, I was putting 8+ hour days into grinding ).

#33

The leveling curves should correspond to rank level ranges and each rank rang should gradually increase the EXP needed to get to the next level. The extreme curve at such early ranks is just ridiculous. That kind of exponential increase shouldn’t be present until the later ranks (around Rank 7 - Rank 10). That way ranking up becomes the leveling goal instead of just trying to get to the next level.

#34

Well renewal ro was crap anyway, it was a grab at the generic aspects of every other mmo out there. You couldn’t max out in 1 month pre renewal. Even most private servers stay away from renewal mechanics…

#35

I’ve never played Renewal and don’t intend to.

RO took a while to level up because there wasn’t proper content for it. There is proper content for those levels here. The world map as we know it goes up to almost 500. And nobody who is saying the exp curve is bad want to reach max level in a few days, all of you that keep repeating that are literally idiots.

#36

Name calling doesn’t help your argument, it just makes it look like a really poor view point.

And if people are going to claim they are getting stuck at level 30, then, yes, it is fair to assume they want to hit the cap in a few days (Like the average game). I got to level 30 in the first day. I was not a barbarian either and went full con leveling by going from group to group (Likely the longest/hardest way to do it).

So if someone is claiming they got stuck in what can be done in one day, and the average game can be capped in a few days, it isn’t too far off to think they want to hit that cap in a few days like they do in most games. But I imagine it is easier to just call out names-People and wanting things to be so easy now a days lol.

#37

These topics are so exhausting to be in. This is probably going to be ignored in favor of a shitpost but whatever.

  • After looking at the charts on EXP needed to level etc, the rates may not need to be adjusted but there is a distinct problem with the pacing, grinding at level 30/600 is retarded. A very noticeable amount of people felt like they were hitting a wall early on. This isn’t a matter of “Well they just bad” there has to actually be something wrong at this point.
  • The game is aiming to have 8 Ranks of classes, it’s very unlikely that the cap will be 250 for very long, if it even is at launch. The game definitely has progression in mind with the number of quests and even instances being discovered. The numbers probably arent just for show/honor badge/sign of permanent virginity/whatever silly internet celebrity status you believe in.
  • What I feel should be adjusted is the EXP needed to level in those low levels. Exploration nets quests, access to instances, unique events where you may receive a buff etc. So it’s not like people will wholly ignore exploring when they literally get rewards for doing so, that and the maps arent nearly as spacious as other MMOs.
  • I dont think spending over 100 hours in a 150 hour beta is a good measure of how easy it is to level quickly, particularly when there’s less competition in higher leveled areas, neither is playing classes that have an easier time with the current content. It makes no sense to apply this to future stages of the game but it shouldn’t be disregarded completely.
  • Most people who do have a problem with the EXP on the forum said they dont want to hit cap in a month, you can all stop pretending people want this now. Slippery slope argumentation doesnt work either, “Well if they do this, then THIS will happen and then it’ll turn into THIS”. It’s based on nothing but presumptions and paranoia.
  • Companies have to think about profits and making a marketable product, leftovers of the dwindling RO community may not be enough. So when talking about rates and exp curves we should focus on something that can benefit everyone rather than “me me me”
  • A second server would just be additional costs for IMC and split the already tiny expected playerbase(I doubt this game will be that big)
  • Low rates will likely bring bots, as much as some of us have flowery ambitions of a 24/7 highly trained, ready to kill bot hunting team, it just isnt realistic. If even games like FFXIV and WoW can have bots you can bet a F2P grindfest will.

I’m not for removing the grind completely from the game, though personally I’d like it to come on later. ATM you’re stuck just spamming the same 2-3 skills over and over to make progress, which isn’t very fun. I feel after people get a chance to flesh their character out a bit more they should experience actual grinding.

1 Like
#38

I think most people agree that the earlier levels should be easier (1-100?), but the later levels should still be grindy.

#39
  • What level does it become not “retarded” to start grinding at? And why is it bad to start at 30? With the speed I was leveling I wasn’t any where close to being able to keep my attributes up. In fact I think having to go back to town every 30 minutes slowed me down but I still went back whenever I could to keep my attributes up and I was still leveling too fast.
  • The quicker they make leveling the harder it will be to find groups early on and in the middle and the more congested the last few maps will be. Why would they even make enough maps for 500 levels if they want people to speed through them?
  • I thought the low levels were just fine. I got to 30 in just a day, and the next day I got to 43. I was in the second way of beta invites. I did invest a decent amount of time, but I didn’t no life it. Didn’t wake up early, or stay up late, and I still went out for lunch and dinner, and watched my sunday tv shows. It was a good pace to me.
  • I didn’t play 100 hours in a 150 hour beta. I wasn’t a barbarian, I went full Con and which made me go even slower. I spent the entire time in groups, unless I was questing. I always did quest first, then grouped if I need a push for the next area. I pretty much played like a full support. If people aren’t looking for a fast finish I don’t see what the problem is. Sure the game takes time, of course it is. It has 500 levels it is going to take awhile. There are plenty of games that don’t have that kind of wait if that is not what you are into.
  • Companies have to think about profits for sure. If they are aiming for a niche community and then turn their back on them and water the game down it won’t attract that niche community it was after, and will lose most of the people just looking for a new MMO once another new MMO comes along. You see this a whole lot in Korean clone games.
  • Bots will exist regardless if it takes a long time or it is extremely quick. Just look at literally every other MMO that is out there.
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#40

I’m the kind of person that loves the grind, I personally would love it to take years to reach max, however I do understand where casuals are coming from. I’ve written about it before in a thread that was lost in the waves of threads that bombarded the forums during the beta, I’d like to see the best of both worlds.

I wouldn’t mind it at all if the exp rates were higher so that casuals can enjoy the game at a reasonable pace for them if there was also a mechanic that allowed us grinders our preferred pace as well.

My suggestion would be after hitting max level there was a way to ‘reset’ your level much like the way Ragnarok Online does, giving you a class title such as “Experienced Swordsman” or whatever and leveling that class again from 1-??? but at a greatly reduced exp rate. This of course would come with a slight cosmetic difference, maybe even extra stat per level.

Doing this would allow people to experience ‘end game’ and decide on their own whether they want to push the extra mile or not.

1 Like