Tree of Savior Forum

🌸 Some info about the future plans on TOS 🌸

General Discussion
#82

Stage 7 Venier
-SPR +40
-All Fencer skill lvl +4
-Holy property attack +601
-6% chance to deal additional holy property damage
Stage 10 Venier
-SPR +63
-All Fencer skill lvl +6(7?)
-Holy property attack +944
-9(10?)% chance to deal additional holy property damage
Stage 10 Geras
-+165% damage when using SpearThrow
Stage 10 Agny
Damaging capping Fireballs??Arsonist best friend??

??:confused:??
Am I understanding it right?, while the Idea is good for some gears, others can turn into BIS till…idk lvl400?500?
Devs would have to redo some equipment effects or hand pick which equipment effects will get the the increase, else some gears effects can make some classes go nuts.

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#83

If the suggestion is taken up, it has to be done in conjunction with some equipment tweaks, together with the core stat changes and skill damage tweaks. They are working on the core stats due to its low pick up rate and uselessness, and the current transcendance is part of the problem, together with the flat damage skill attacks making the core stats (STR/INT) so weak. Don’t think we can just change 1 aspect without making tweaks to the other 2.

As of such the idea is still pretty raw though, do hope that the devs can take something out of it and refine it into something good.

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#84

God, they’re really trying to sink their own ship…

That attack&defence system was already overhauled several times during the last few months:
We got gem buffs, transcendence system, defence scaling with Rank, 3-4 slotted equipments from Hunting Grounds and now they want to throw this away as a whole system and exchange it towards a %based system?
I smell a hardliner system like Dragon Nests equipment values for damage reduction and abnormal scaling incoming…

Man, I wish they’d just adjust content towards the current system and not change the scaling every few months by tweaking the amounts here and there with every larger update. Rank 8 content seems to be hardcore at first, but it is just a rather strong progression towards a more balanced gaming experience, as the monsters before Rank 8 content are nowadays more like roadkills and easy victims than challenging content.

Especially if you consider the possibilities of having multiple characters on one account, playing Saalus with 10 characters each day (shared equip, takes ~2 hours at most with the right builds) will roughly provide 60 gems per month; it takes ~5 months to take your weapon to stage 10 this way, but lets say we skip the last 3 transcendeces, to save time and make it more likely/achievable, which shaves 3 months off the time. 280% more atk/magic attack would be enough to breeze through Rank 8 content unless you’re a magic user and stuck with 3-4k mdef monsters on some occasions.

This is achievable with some dedication towards the game, and considering we aren’t going to see new content for the next few months, Saalus+silver farming, attributing and equip stacking/enhancing/awakening/transcending are ± the only things you can do besides leveling x toons for your personal gains like buff shops, scrollers [Enchanter with Joint Penalty&Quicken scrolls ftw xD] and more Saalus farmers.

Let’s see what will strike us once the months are over, and how the class balance is affected by this system change…

#85

Yes they are and sadly the ship is sinking if they don’t do anything about it. When the current system (transcendance) was announced and implemented my reaction was like “Oh gawd”, facepalm. This system affects more than just damage.

Let us take what the current situation is for ToS after overhauls to the attack/def system.

  1. What’s the BiS weapon for R2-R7 for all classes besides Archer?

5 hammer with 5x overhauled reds. Once the player makes one of these, he will never ever need another weapon all the way until he gets to 200+ levels, effectively skipping every single other weapon that is painstakingly added in from level 40 - 170. The only time a weapon change will be considered is when the build needs a different weapon.

What about transcendance? Let’s say we have a hardworking player A who gets his weapon Galeslasher to lv7 (+280%) transcended. It took months for him to do but he is happy with his weapon now.

Then R9 rolls out with new level 370 shinies, but the new weapons being non transcended, pales in comparison to the lv7 trans. Galeslasher. So our player A decide to just continue using his trusty Galeslasher until he saved up enough shards to transcend the new 370 shiny.

New content comes out with ultra shinies for lv420 while A is still collecting shards. And our dear A will once again face the easy decision of not using the 420 ultra shiny simply due to lv7 transcended purple/orange has far greater damage.

This is the same as the Five hammer problem for lower ranks. If the essence of the game is to farm and collect new equipments and item, then having transcendence is hindering this purpose; since with high transcendance it allows the player to effectively skip equipment tiers due to the current gear and content being so damage oriented. Yes there are options like Hammer of Dismantlement… but

Who in the right mind will use a hammer of dismantlement on a Heart of Glory so painstakingly farmed and made after farming the 500-600dkp monsters for days.

  1. New content has a good amount of monsters that are build for transcended equipment in mind. With monsters at 2000 mdef, 400k hp, it is hard to even make a significant dent on the monster without some investment in transcendence levels.

Example with Frost cloud’s 643 attack, a 407 vanilla windia and 600int, we are still short of 350 matk to even break through that dreaded 1 less-than-a-prick damage on a 400k hp monster. The wizard can’t even advance in the new content without at least some investment in transcendance.

That’s the main problem of transcendance, upon implementation it buffs the players’ attacks so much that content has to be balanced to it. Yet transcendance itself is not robust enough for players who make big investments on an equipment to transfer it to another equipment without making sacrifices (hammer of dismantlement).

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#86

I have something to highlight, you are able to get back at least 70-90% of the shards use if you do not abuse ur potentials.

As for now you don’t really need transcend to hit a big dent but not doing so.
Means you need your headgear to add additional 360 magic attack and Full INT( at least 700) to hit a dent to 95% of the content. 2 level 7 blues.

That is to say to hit at least 5-7k per tick on FC.
There not much mobs above 2k mdef anyway. Mostly at 1.1~1.5 now

Don’t get me wrong i am not saying that the current system is good or bad
.
Just pointing at something on the current stat issue + stuff that is still reasonable. Just that as a wizard you will need to invest More on your Rod/Staff.

This issue of transcend comes and play more importance when you are attempting end game content. Which is pretty much artificial difficulty which i highlighted since day 1.

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#87

There’s 1 thing that transcend system i really hate about. As add in as this is a related issue but separate matter.

Transcend of Armor sets/ accessories .
As we all know that due to magic damage and power creep issue.

Magic def is still an issue to most players. After transcending and introduce with nuaelee cards…

This totally obsolete the issue for survivability.
Why introduce such a high spike magic stat on Mobs and punish your players to ultra transcend their accessories that doesn’t make sense lol.

They shoulda just scale the magic defense and defense to % scaling as level go up (something like Similar to Crit rate/chance).

This will make at least new players life’s better a little. Still a joke though.

With 5k pdef and 5k mdef you can just go solmiki without clerics.

with 2.5k pdef and mdef you can just literally STROLL the whole of ET 1-20 without a care. Flat mechanics is retarded :smirk:

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#88

Thanks @unicorntheshiny for the wizard information.

Yeah having sufficient mdef just to survive aren’t easy to get without any transcendance to accessories. Scaling is a huge issue when we seemingly have mobs that are balanced to fight against players that has transcended equipment.

I worry about how new content will be like if they don’t make changes to this.

#89

That thought actually occur to me before. :head_bandage:

Looking how it is like for now. IMC wants us to finish solmiki full set + stage 10 transcend them (regardless of set choices).

Pretty much. This is the “Delicate” time sink they are famous for on Korea mmorpg.

#90

@muitenphale1995 has tagged them here so do hope they come here to read. keeping fingers crossed

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#91

That’s bad, as new content should be challenging for both new and veteran players.

As time goes by and if most of us are hardworking enough, we would have, on average a transcended lv5 full equipment set by the time R9 kicks in. Then for IMC to make new content challenging enough for us not to steamroll through it with our transcended equipment, monsters in R9 will be at the level of solmiki at the very least. At that time it will be good luck to the new players and new character rerolls since they don’t have the “luxury of time” to transcend their gear.

Maybe when they reach that part they would have transcended to another game. :X

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#92

my bad i wrote sink as sync GG EZ. i need my coffee :sleeping:

Pretty much. If they don’t do any thing to enable players to stay tune at least drawing a fine line to casual and “hardcore” or grow fruits of labour for staying…

They will end up losing players the moment most players hit that brick of road block.

Progression is what keeps most players going on. Most whalers might leave/stay but… honest fact that actually what keeps me going.

#93

Haha no worries, I too make many errors. The message is clear enough to understand :3

Yep, second that too. Progression is what keeps me going too.

I’m glad that they (IMC) started looking into these issues now, which is a good thing and it is still not too late to make changes. It will be really great if they can have a discussion session with our community, at least over the forums or discord to hear our views too. I’m sure that we have many players who have really good suggestions and ideas to contribute to them on how to make ToS more fun and engaging to every player.

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#94

It’s actually good that monsters can beat up the players in this game.
I don’t think the roadkill mentality many players collected along their journey through many MMORPGs is something to be considered a good thing.

Don’t we want a challenging fight with the brutes/ferals of the wilds?
Isn’t that what adventure is about? Surviving the tiger/elephant without the gun is what makes it thrilling, not having to just stand there as if nothing can scratch you and hit like a non-brainer…

And since the monsters can’t beat the player so easily with physical attacks (guarding,blocking,dodging, plate armor), at least the magic attacks must hurt. This is basically like modern Hunters vs. wild animals with their guns, the hunters being the magic-using mobs while the animals are the players. Nature reversed, yet we still blame “awww, I get too much damage although I could equip xyz to considerably reduce the damage and have skills to stun/knockdown/disable/slowdown/outrange the monsters”…

Use your brain and develope a tactic vs each monster, try to learn while you play, and keep the mechs in mind while gearing your character towards the challenging content.

About that wizard problem… I won’t say much aside from:

  • Add 2 blue or red gems (6*-7*) into the rod
  • upgrade it to +5
  • get a dagger and costume headgears for elemental damage bonus
  • get Blessing buff in town
    done without having to transcend anything.

Or,if you don’t want to upgrade or transcend: screw the rod and get Vienarazis mace instead because of more INT bonus and high matk bonus from the mace itself.
Vienarazis mace increases your matk by 532+111= 643 as the base value, and additionally by 168 (minimum magical attack) and 320 (maximum magical attack). So the value would be 811-963 matk increement without calculating in any gems, which is more than double the value of your windia rod by default (it basically has the value of a Stage 4 transcended Windia Rod, while you save 25 blessed gems which are = 250 shards; the value of 250 shards is around 50 m, which is Âą the value of 2 practoniums).

With this setup, you don’t need the transcendence or even gems to hurt the mobs with 2k mdef. Add some blue or red gems to see at least some damage (a few k) with weak Frost Cloud (which wasn’t designed to hurt strong monsters anyway as it’s a multihit AoE skill).

#95

Practonium = RNG

Unless you go semi-hardcore-3Âąalts-doing-dailies so you can buy one or an already crafted purple which maybe what this game was meant to be.

I have 2 300+ alts, one of which has already gotten a practonium after a month of battling with RNG. I have 3 that just passed R7, 1 of which can already run Saalus. It gets boring and it feels forced to get transcendence while at the same time gearing my main (unless maybe if I went full whale or opted for RMT).

Maybe I’ll feel rewarded later on once I’ve achieved those things, but the core issue here is to help new players. We want them to stick to the game, not tell them “git gud, this game is not for you then” as soon as they hit that roadblock that is “my damage is too low but I don’t want to transcend this 170/220 gear because it’s a waste of shards BUT I also can’t still craft a 315 because I don’t have enough resources and Pract RNG is f*cking me in @ss”.

Veterans will quit eventually. This game needs new players to survive.

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#96

A sup corona + 15 is actually better than banking on prac mace.
It can take up to months before a pink cotton ball is spawn.

But anyway that was due to the issue there are no “gears inbetween” lel.
Most casual players will not stick to this huge progression lead and this road block will be the down fall. Like what biseke mentioned above me

The gap between lolopanther and end game solmiki is too huge though.
Partially is due to flat mechanics issue.

If end game require so much progression to clear with specific meta… which is nearing 3/4 max cap there is something wrong lel

Well at least they are looking at things slowly one by one with directions.

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#97

I was just pointing out that by using your Practonium on Vienarazis Mace instead of Windia rod, you can save on shards. If you’re not a hardcore player, the chance is high that you won’t be able to reach Stage 5 transcendence within the time takes for them to either change the game system or bring out better weaponry. That way Vienarazis Mace is way better for any non-hardcore transcending/upgrading Wizard than starting with that weak Windia Rod that takes the same materials to craft btw.

If you are hardcore enough and/or already farmed the shards during the time you took to level to 317+ and can reach Stage 5 from the beginning, Windia Rod is the better choice.

However, the problem of battling with magic defence is self-induced if you chose to start with the considerably weaker equipment although you could’ve had a better alternative.

#98

You pretty much highlighted my main points as well so \o\

Most of this issue are the cost of why vet or " more casual players won’t stick it"

only most of us hardcore players left. Even so There is only a handful of us left… Eventually if it doesn’t cure the root of problems and with the huge turn off bugs to add on and weekly shiet dose of crap.

It on it’s road to fold like any mmorpg.

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#99

As I said, even getting that core material is RNG. That’s the main problem.

2nd, no new player, unless through “other” means, can easily come up with the silver to buy one nor a crafted 315.

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#100

Heh,well, the example of Nekorin used a pract weapon so I gave the obvious answer why the character was battling so hard (no gems, no headgears, bad weapon choice but meh) against the 2k mdef wall.

Considering he somehow got his hands on the practonium and materials to craft that Windia Rod, he could’ve alternatively crafted the Vienarazis Mace as well…

#101

it’s fine. The mace was underrated.

Only few of us know it’s true potential as a " lowest efficient weapon"

The huge unresolved issues are still around.
They really need to fine tune all this so that casual players can catch up and not widen the gap.

We will see how it goes after 9months i am actually kinda glad they do things and start talking now.

Optimization patch was something they shoulda have focused earlier. Then slowly revamp stats system and make the curb high but not to this extend it’s punishing.

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