Tree of Savior Forum

Cata 3 choices (PVP) - Dragoon or Lancer - Futureproof progression

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

It’s a hard choice as nobody has a crystal ball to know what’s in store for rank 9 and 10.

Currently, Dethrone looks stronger in PVP. However, if we are to consider rank 9 or 10, Dragoon c3 is running a huge risk of having an incompatible class at rank 10. By this I mean, a class that uses spears AND can be used while mounted. We all saw what happened when a new rank is released without compatibility - Corsair 3 is a fine example, the dual wielder is forced to hold a shield if he wants to go Murmillo and abandon DWA.

Lancer doesn’t have this problem. IMC designed Lancer to be specific for PVP, so there is a degree of certainty that Lancers will be suitable and compatible on mounts for PVP until rank 10.

So given the above, are all PVP-focused Cata 3 players forced into Lancer?

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#2

You run the same risk as lancer, especially if C2 and C3 aren’t great. At worse, as a goon2, you go for lancer 2 if goon3 doesn’t offer something great, or lancer1 for some utility. But I doubt having 2 mounted spearsmen they’d just ditch the setup.

I know something though, I don’t want to face a team with a cata goon2 and a cata lancer, especially if both have restrain, at the same time in PvP :joy:

If I had restrain like a proper PvP catagoon, I’d take lancer without a second thought. Rank 9 and 10 you can go fully into either. I do doubt lancer 2 will have such a good utility skill as lancer1 does, and it’s probably just 1 extra skill, since it’s not focused on damage the damage scaling of skills isn’t as important.

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#3

Goon 3 can’t be bad, because you know you’ll have 5 extra levels of Dethrone, even if the new skills are bad.

I’ve seen many people say SW3 > Cata 3 > Lancer is a good build, but I don’t understand why? Lancer doesn’t have moves like Rush or Cyclone that makes full use of Restrain lv 10. Yes lancer’s got utility, but that has nothing to do with Restrain lv 10 though. Any decent build can be supported by Restrain lv 10.

#4

It all depends on the role you want for yourself as a Cata.

Disclaimer: This is a mix of theory-crafting and past experience as a LK during massive 100+ GvG events at Ragnarok online, and being a Youtube whore for Lancer videos.

IMHO, the idea behind the Lancer is utility with decent survivability and amazing mobility. Yes, any decent build can benefit from Restrain 10 BUT, not everyone can go to a certain objective as fast as a Cata 3, live long enough, and actually deliver the “utility” that is needed in a particular area of the battle.

Think of the Lancer as a swiss-army on a penguin. Whatever the problem, be it magic barrier/circle destruction, mass CC via rush, single target CC via impale, or just being a plain headache to the enemy team via knockdowns, the Lancer will get to where he is needed faster than any other class.

A Lancer’s job is not DPS. The Lancer’s job is to disrupt and disable mages and clerics. To force the enemy team to prioritize and deal with you, leaving your team to do their thing.

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#5

  • Restrain is your insurance in there. You aim for an archer, miss, still procs.

  • Lancer normal attacks KD by chance. Add stun by chance and it becomes an awesome way to break r7x

  • Sw3Cata3 is the prime PvP build for spear wielders, if you play PvP frequently, you realize Swordsman is a support class in the likes of “annoyers” if you ever played competitive pokemon (lol implied) or slow paced mobas. Swordie isn’t DPS but an enabler/bait/hit-n-run with a decent finisher like Rush

  • You already have a high restrain proc stun-lock with rush, you don’t really need more multihit to be useful.

  • Your rush cooldown, or while you wait for the opening to attack is when lancer’s skills shine, you keep your distance and see many enemy circles? Erase them. See a couple open wiz/clerics? Shut them up. An incoming cata or SR? Get them to get off their not-so-high horse. This is prime time for impaler too.

  • High CON opponents will become more prominent with the higher damage in rank8 skills = more block. Lancer has the perfect blockpen buff, perfect before rush or Crush.

It just gives you many more options in PvP in general, it’s what it was made for. With goon2 you get Dethrone and more damage on skills you’d rarely use in PvP unless you’re at an advantage, in which case Crush combo is better.

Now analyze dethrone, to be fair, it’s the perfect physical damage skill. Range, damage, hitbox, AoE ratio. But it’s just 1 skill, it doesn’t give you many options, again, unless you’re already at an advantage in the match.

I’d definitely love to see 3x kills in 1 hit 3 or 4 seconds into the match though. That’s approx the time it takes to get in dethrone range from the opponents trying to get their ausrine or setting their zoning spells. But this would definitely be an isolated case.

My main complaint about lancer is not being able to use 1h spears. Swash buckling to hit 35k+ HP is very important for the annoyer role.

Edit: to expand on the role as annoyer, I’ve felt my best matches have been low damage/high baiting. When I get raised alone, and don’t die, or 2 archers waste their good skills on me holding C for a couple seconds, or at the 6 seconds mark I’ve taken most of their r7x and running back to base with 20% HP.

Oh the satisfaction of impaling their only healer… or the incoming cata… it’s just lovely.

I’d probably hold the already great Rush to higher esteem if I had restrain. Since I don’t, and I like my shield even thought I don’t have a good one, I can continue to compromise on PvP build purity and take Goon2.

4 Likes
#6

Incompatible class at rank 10? if you are sw3>cata3>drag3, you can take pelt for the utility, or doppel for DoV. Just take any filler class that has use.

Corsair3 is a problem because it’s in a “middle” of a build kind of class unlike dragoon which is kind of “at the end of a build” class.

#7

I fuckin hated this when the translations came out. My Pelhop was already level 25X. I had to re-roll a S3C3 for Lancer.

Also, it would have been broken and overpowered if they allowed shields. Just imagine, all the mobility, skill utility, HP survivability, and you still give Peltasta C1 attributes?

2 Likes
#8

I don’t think it’d be broken or overpowered, but I like how you can see the advantages it brings to the table.

I felt the same way about the translations.

I don’t really have the time to make alts for now, will barely be hitting 280 when R8 comes, so I’ll live with goon 2 for now.

#9

Dragoon 3 damage will never fall at rank 10. Its like Wiz3Elem3 on rank 7 era. Probably at rank 11 or rank 12 but definitely not on rank 10. Cata3 is not forced to Lancer either, because Dragoon2 is very strong on PVP. Different strategy vs Lancer but very good on what his purposes are.

#10

@Tanzen @jynxie10 You never know, there might be a power gap in skills between rank 9 and 10, just like rank 7 and 8.

@kyokahn I still don’t see the link between Restrain 10 and Lancer-specific skills in general. Any SW3 Cata 3 can be “annoyers” with restrain + rush. You highlight a lot of strengths with Lancer, such as block pen, knockdown etc. but those are lancer’s strengths. Knockdown + stun is kinda pointless, since if both proc then it’s a waste of that 1 sec stun.

#11

Dopple is rank 6 class, but very strong at rank 8 patch. Cata3 rush vs rank 8 classes. Dethrone at range, rush at close range. Dragoon 3 is future proof class, you can take steroid at rank 10 from dopple if there are no other choices. Lancer will be the last mounted class though from the looks of it.

#12

The biggest thing for lancer is crushing magic circle. The silence is a bonus.

A zoner can deploy a bunch of AoE that completely disable all melee from going into the area.

With Lancer, one of cataphract’s biggest problem is eliminated. It allow counter play to happen. Before that, cataphract is a 1 trick pony with restrain + rush. But not only do lancer do it for themselves, they did it for all team mates to invade opponent’s space.

Then there is psycho’s raise. Which instead of watching ur whole team get wiped, lancer can save them instead.

The major unfortunate thing for lancer is the magic crushing CD is not something crazy like 3 sec. So lancer actually have to choose to use it offensively or defensively.

1 Like
#13

This goes back to the lancer vs dragoon debate.
Yes the magic circle breaking skill Joust is good but it’s one use every 33 secs. There are so many things in battle league to break, it’s not enough.

Having said that though, I think dragoon is still more threatening in PVP than Lancer. If there’s a dragoon and a lancer on the enemy team, you definitely want to focus on killing the dragoon first, otherwise you risk eating 2 dethrones every 16 secs.

@jynxie10 By steroid u mean DOV? If you stack that in TBL you’ll die very fast…

1 Like
#14

I honestly won’t be surprised if people went

sw3>cat3>drag3>lancer just for the magic crush + dethrone if rank10 offer nothing great.

Lancer is great 1 circle investment. (and now rumor of class reset is on fire… so we might not even need to plan so carefully if u ready the cash)

3 Likes
#15

Yes, DOV scales well at endgame. as @fhonghwong said, lancer seems good for Dragoon 3 at rank 10. Block penetration is more than enough to get lancer at rank 10 for dragoon 3, it think it is really good, SW2/pelt/Sw3-Cata3-Dragoon3-Lancer.

#16

Yeah if rank 10 doesn’t offer anything compatible then this might be the best path to go. I prefer damage over utility to be honest.

#17

By the way, since Lancers don’t make much use of Restrain, how’s this for an alternative build?

SW1 > Pelt 1 > Hop 2 > Cata 3 > Lancer

Hop 2 gives extra crit with Finestra and Spear Lunge to boost Lancer’s lower damage (compared to Dragoon). Pelt 1 gives evasion from Guardian.

Only problem is you need to be close to apply spear lunge.

#18

I dont like it cuz hop isnt really good for PvP and pelt doesnt go well with lancer

1 Like
#19

There’s no restrain in this build…/facepalm

#20

How does Lancer not use Restrain that much when Restrain is almost mandatory for Catas - Lancer going for PVP?