Tree of Savior Forum

Can Staff please comment on plans for PVP?

I see many good opinions, good stuffs going on, I have ran an very basic analysis upon the pvp contents, - well how much attending, that is x ratio of entire population ects - and made early discussions. As you know the GTW is, well least we could call the first step. I also attended during the test of GTW, some was fun some was not really exciting.

But I would also like to point out somethings. It is kind of hard to make radical changes in a day. We still have things on going on new stuffs - can’t stop developing new things y’ know. - And we also have to spare the resources on the bug fixing, and here, the PVP. marvelous that recent concentration made some progress about it. - few good update, including optimization, which we still need more - but we still have long way to go.

I’ll try my side of work to do stuffs like I told you above, with solid opinion supported with good , where could start analysis. Or test. I think the PVP should be fun thing.-And I agree on some opinions posted on here. well some I still need to experience myself.- if we could have more good requests based on good opinion and statistics, I believe, we will not halt on progression.

I cannot tell you what and when, but we are going to face some more updates. I wish to keep on discussing things.

6 Likes

Oh, I guess that’s where “Rets can go full CON” came from. Thanks for clarifying.

So as a Ret3 should I go full CON or get some DEX, perhaps 150 for optimal ASPD (already tested on my ping)?

If you’re having trouble then no, you’re not. And your matk/patk indicate that your gear is on the lower end of things, I’m guessing 350 weapons with mid-level transcend. You’re talking about retis but the issue is probably far more likely people who have invested very highly into their gear and defense. Transcended armor, etc… but that’s exactly what we’re talking about when gear normalization comes up. This isn’t a reti problem, it’s a “if you don’t have +16 stage 10 everything don’t bother doing TBL” problem.

And that’s no fun for most people who play at an average level–meaning most people stay away from TBL altogether. No one wants that. It has to be reasonable for the average Joe to jump in and enjoy it, while still maintaining a balance of having a goal for end game gear.

nice joke,
show me how to get 10k matk without any buff, full con no transpose, with 350 weapons mid-level-transcend please.

silence, rete, disarm can resist.

silence = purple card / pain barrier / pd mask / murm helm / sprint / cc or interrupt when they cast skill

rete = movespeed can help for dodge skill / pain barrier / murm helm / sprint / cc or interrupt when they cast skill

disarm = pd mask / pain barrier / murm helm /sprint / cc or interrupt when they cast skill

high dmg can counter with any immune or block skill.

camourflage
revive
safety zone
sterea trofh
mackangdal
iron skin
sub zero *reduce half dmg and freeze
ausrine
revenged sevenfold *return dmg
shrink body
dagger guard
vital protection
and etc

many debuff can kill or stop reti

greater corruption
devaluation
telepath
freeze
stun
blind faith *op than reti dmg
smash bullet bleeding *like blind faith
slow *froster lord and marionette
link *link to paper player/pet/any object
raise
knock down/knock back
armor break
disenchant
and etc

reti full con will rekt by pd zealot / link necro shadow / scout musketeer piper / cryo kino and etc

good reti cant play with full con even have disarm coz slow animation and can resist.

now reti strong coz old meta is cleric wiz.

the main problem in tbl is few class can play.

Normalize gear = cleric battle league.

5 Likes

I need to agree, normalize gear (JUSDT THAT) wont solve anything, some classes just can be WAY BETTER than other’s with normalized gear.

About Reti:

Is a strong and solid class but can be countered by some tricks and some classes (cryo/kino/shadow) are way better (on tbl) and no one is talking a bit (not to mention clerics).

reposted to address the issue seperately.

2 Likes

So, when in the bloody hell are we going to see some changes? I’m telling you, archer is getting even weaker with the rank 10 update compared to other classes. I seem to be doing MUCH worse in gem feud now. Our pathetic amount of HP isn’t helping. Plus people can see me in cloak plain as day.

It’s just really frustrating having to wait so long for ANYTHING to be done. We’ve already waited too long. PVP has been utterly neglected in this game for the longest time.

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I thought I wrote my 2 cents regarding how I would like to see TBL from a somewhat new player in the terms of entering TBL.

In terms of power creep solutions:

Gear Normalization to an extent:
Getting good gear feels good. I 100% do not agree with a normalized PvP system, however I feel like there should be an enhancement, and possibly a transcendence cap (+16 and trans5 respectively). Both are generally obtainable numbers to the playerbase once they play a bit, and results in minmaxing being in stats, velcoffer. While the gap is still there, this normalization prevents the current existing gaps between players and their gears.

PvP SFR Scalings ( + revamp in %nerfs on weapon matk etc)
A different solution that I don’t really have thought out too well is SEPERATE sfr scalings in PvP. This also completely revamps how PvP is at it’s current state. I suggest revamping the reduced weapon scalings and instead put a normalization cap as per my #1 suggestion.
Then they would completely introduce seperate sfr scalings on a lower scale . I don’t know defense will factor in this case, but it will give developers more control in the long run, as they can nerf a certain aspect of a skill if it is overperforming in PvP, or in PvE but not both! Another disclaimer is I don’t have the greatest knowledge on defense etc so this might not even work with ToS’s current system.

In terms of Controlling Effects, Mobility-
Some stuff are way too strong, I don’t really have an extensive list my motto is some CC come with class identity, don’t nerf to the ground but if it’s overperforming too much nerf would be appreciated? I am not a veteran player so I can’t say “oh that’s bs” just out of the blue. Some stuff are counterable, maybe I just don’t know how?

In terms of incentive:
That’s some weak incentive for an okay TBL box. Needs better rewards that won’t break economy/gameplay to dilute the small number of people queuing atm at least for Klaipedia. Though the biggest issue is power creep , defense wise survivability wise, one shot wise.

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This would work if gear attack and defense were normalized, and it is something that Nexon already does with Dragon Nest. In that game, each skill has a PVE and PVP version. The PVP version having altered damage and duration. It is a great way to balance the game with pvp in mind, but it only works if the gear values are normalized.

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Yeah it’s a typical trend that gear normalization follows a system like that since it’s easier to control and balance SFRs if they know the concrete max values etc of the PvP scene. However I have seen games that do case to case SFR system just as effective while still have gear gaps simply because the equipment (enhance) cap is practically capped at a certain level. I feel like if it was capped like I suggested, it would still allow developers to gauge what the highest values could be, while making PvP a more progressive system for incentivization. I just don’t think the game is big enough like GW2 etc where you can seperate PvP and PvE completely.

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I would argue that +16 isn’t easy, but it is achievable just by playing the game, so i would be down for installing a hard cap for PVP only.

This would encourage people to invest in their gear but not make it feel insurmountable, and they could still perform with +11 or even +6 gear without feeling overwhelmed.

This is the crux of the ‘power creep’ issue. The system works within reasonable constraints, but the moment someone has a +23 or more weapon it is screwed sideways, and discourages everyone else from playing the game.

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archer didn’t get weaker in r10 , it got stronger .

If you really wanted to play a CC class, yeah.

Rank 10 didn’t fix the block problem (muskets excluded of course, but that’s since rank 9). And while swordsmen got a lot more options for CC in rank 10 that ignore the other means of preventing them, archer did not. I am very much not in the “archer is dead” camp though.

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Standardized gear is a problematic idea as it would break some existing mechanics. Skills that scale on raw stats would be near useless or mediocre like the bandaid solution for swordsman’s survivability; peltasa’s guardian. Sustained matches will be dominant thus clerics would be very effective, to add… zealot’s blindfaith which is already cancerous as it is wouldn’t be affected by the standardization since it doesn’t scale from weapons raw attack. The reason why cleric and wizard requires lesser investment in gears for PVP is that they have overall better game and skill mechanics to begin with; magic can’t be blocked or dodged, fast animations and absurd hitboxes which most doesn’t require targeting at all, etc. Meanwhile, raw stats from gear is the only way for archers and swordsman to minimize the handicap.

Gear wouldn’t even be an issue in PVP if there’s no potential system in this game. The best solution would be the removal of potential system and there would be no further excuses unless you are lazy enough to farm. It’s a win win situation for both sides, game and it’s playerbase; players will be online more to pump their equips and devs would need not make gimmicky events to keep their players online. Another viable option would be like what other suggests; capping max enhancements. To be honest, ToS is very generous game in terms of resources; silver is easy to get, we just need to work for it, it all boils down to the potential system that can kill our investments both silver, time, (and real money) in a blink of an eye with a bad RNG.

Reitarus class has been overdone, I’m saying it despite being a swordsman fanboy. Disarm really needed that unblockable effect maybe an overheat too but; silence from pull rete, full critical immunity from vital protection, aoe ratio from trident finish, no diminishing duration CC from C3, godly attributes with no drawback and more. It’s way pushing it. Suggestion is to increase disarm overheat to 3 and remove the silence effect from pull rete, maybe also nerf multipliers, it’s way too high for a skill with short cooldown and mechanic that boost it’s damage to 100% (we’ve experienced similar from shadowmancer’s shadowthorn already),

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@STAFF_Yuri

Many interesting news … for the GTW !! They missed just talking about the full channel problem … being able to put 60 people on defense while the attacker can only take 40 is a bit strange.
And do we have any dates for launching the new test?

Just wondering. Is Pied Piper sleep still bugged?
(I have a PP, but don’t want to have to use it for tbl. It’s just 1 archer class out of many…)

yeah you can still damage through lullaby and it wont break.

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Ya, so that’s quite the bug. Don’t really care about seeing PP in charts right now. Although lullaby will still be powerful when it’s fixed. Right now that’s really op imo.

Still thinking it might be fair to be revealed from cloak when you play the flute. Enemy should be able to detect you.

Why not just have unenhanceable untranscendable PVP specific gear for now?

The staff can then gather normalized data for adjustments to skill damage/duration and test specific modifiers or gems for the gear like block pen, reduced status X duration, increased regen while under status X, etc. Over time the system could be tweaked to be more competitive and less dependent on the cycle of current flavor of the month and the next nerf hammer.

1 Like