The Paladin class is not focused on dps, but more towards a (support) tanking role.
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it was an example to point out that saying āno offense meantā does nothing to actually make the statement less offensive.
you say this like the developers just go around patching things at random, and āout of nowhereā theyāre going to spring insane changes that no one could foresee on you. like suddenly theyāre going to add a patch that changes Archers into a melee class, because ranged attacks were unfair to swordies or something. balance changes -will- happen, but seriously? they just donāt affect characters -that- drastically. if a certain skill is completely out of line with anything any other class can do at a comparable level, that skill gets powered-down (or even powered up if itās ridiculously low) to a level that is in line with what other classes have around that level. highlander skills would be balanced against peltasta and other rank 2 classesā¦ not against dragoons and doppelsoeldner, and the same goes in return. if a dragoon can outpower a hoplite, that isnāt ready for a nerf, itās the expected order of things.
now sometimes, something DOES get completely out of hand, and a major change is forced. at that point, any decently run game will offer (usually just FORCE) a reset for all affected classes, and sometimes everyone else gets a reset too.
i mean you act like no game ever in history has had classes that allocate skills before, and this situation has never been heard of. turning a -paranoid- eye to this isnāt any good either.
@soldatazur quoting someone does the same thing as using the @name to notify them.
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I always considered being capable of self-criticism to be a virtue. If I behave like a monkey, knowingly or not, and someone points that out to me, why would I be offended? I will either correct my behaviour or I will continue to behave like a monkey if thatās what I want to be doing. Where does the offense come in?
Please note that I never said everyone that is against class reset behaves like this, but a large group in that camp does, and it goes against the spirit of coming to a compromise by means of having a polite discussion.
If people donāt want to be called out on their bad behaviour, they should consider behaving better. If those people are going to be arrogant, intolerant and dismissive of other peopleās arguments without actually providing any of their own, Iām not going to tiptoe around them and pretend that their behaviour is fine.
I find it much more offensive than my analogy was.
Look, there are problems with the gameās inflexible class system. The skill descriptions are vague or downright misleading, information on certain classes is still scarce or non-existent even if you try to research them on the internet, future patches and new ranks will bring big changes to existing builds, cosmetic items are bound to character and not to your account, to name only some of them. The reason people are asking for class reset is because it solves all of those in one go. Itās the simplest solution. Find a better one and most people will stop asking for a reset.
As for that quote, that would address a big concern of mine. I want to know that the time I invest into this game will not have been wasted by a major patch in the future. But I donāt want to hope that they will offer some way to salvage affected characters, I want to know.
Call me paranoid if you will, but I see hordes of people saying that they want no class reset ever, under no circumstances, and I fear that IMC will listen to them because they are the loudest.
well thatās great, but that isnāt self-criticism, and you werenāt pointing out that people were behaving poorly. you were dismissing the opposing point of view as a bunch of āuncivilized apesā, and implying that they werenāt worthy of listening or responding to.
and of course you find it more offensive when someone else does it, because you āwere just making an analogyā and anyone else that does it āis being rudeā. (thatās called a double standard.)
āLook, there are problems with the gameās inflexible class system.ā ā are there? i like it the way it is.
āThe skill descriptions are vague or downright misleadingā ā i havenāt seen this yet. please name some examples.
āinformation on certain classes is still scarce or non-existent even if you try to research them on the internetā ā again, not something iāve seen. please be specific.
āfuture patches and new ranks will bring big changes to existing buildsā ā will they? i mean sure there will be changes. every game takes time addressing balance issues (WoW still makes balance changes every patch). but āchangeā doesnāt mean the same thing as āmakes your build unplayableā. and as i mentioned, any change that -is- severe enough would result in a skill reset. this isnāt hypothesis, this is what every game iāve played has done when a -major- change to skills has been implementedā¦ but āmajorā means changing how the skill works entirely, not just pushing the damage up or down a bit. that saidā¦ it would be a āfree skill resetā, not any kind of class reset. and āskill reset potionsā can already be purchased in the TP shop.
ācosmetic items are bound to character and not to your accountā ā how is this related to the build issues? but i agree with you, premium shop items should be team-tradable.
now thatās silly. IMC isnāt going to listen to us just because weāre louder. (and believe me, weāre not ā you guys are the ones making thread after thread about it.) IMC is going to choose that path, because that was the path chosen from the start.
KTOS doesnāt have class resets.
the Founder bundles donāt have class resets (and they -do- have stat reset potions which are also not going to be available anywhere else.)
in fact, iāve never seen any game EVER offer a class reset. ābut games with multiple builds!ā yes, those are skill resets, in builds that only have a single class.
the game was generally designed such that those who are unfamiliar with it will eitherā¦
ā¦ do a bunch of research on the classes before they get too farā¦ orā¦
ā¦ jump in, mess everything up, scrap that first character and try again with all that new knowledge.
ābut classes with missing info!ā again, name some classes. yes, i certainly have not read every detail about every class, so point out these glaring holes i just havenāt seen.
iāll say it again, youāre right: hordes of people are saying āno class reset, under any circumstances!ā because this game doesnāt need it.
IMC isnāt just going to go around randomly screwing up builds unless itās some kind of glitch-build that relies on the fact that a certain ability does not work as intendedā¦ and of course if you make a build based on that, youāre just asking to have the carpet pulled out from under you.
And aside from that, whatever classes you pick -can- be made to work.
Why do you feel the need to make these assumptions to support your case? I never said that everyone with the opposing point of view acts like an uncivilized ape, I merely pointed out that many do and I stand by it.
Yes, assuming that Iām wrong and accusing them unjustly, you would of course be correct. But am I wrong?
You donāt have to go far to find an example of this behaviour. This thread does not ask for class reset, it specifically asks for a poll about class reset, yet I have people coming here and flagging it because they disagree with class reset. They disagree with something, therefore the rest of us have no right to enquire what others think about it? Iām sorry, what?!
The first reply in this thread is from a guy that completely misinterprets the purpose of it. He assumes that the thread is promoting class reset, he rallies people to flag this as spam and he got 10 likes for it already and I guess quite a few flags for the thread itself.
Iām asking for a poll because how else are we going to know what the playerbase thinks about this issue? How are IMC going to make informed decisions about the gameās future without knowing what players outside of the forumās small community think? Why are people here so strongly opposed to it? I understand that some people hate the idea of having a class reset, but why do they hate the idea of a poll about it so much that they completely abandon any semblance of good manners and lash out at anyone that mentions class reset in a sentence?
I donāt know what you would call this behaviour, but it is certainly neither rational nor civilized.
I like the system too, for the most part, but it is not perfect and can be improved upon.
Itās generally the newer or the less popular classes that there is little information on. Rogue C3 would be an example. Corsair C2 and C3 would be another. They both have skills with bad descriptions. It doesnāt help that almost all videos that are available on these classes are outdated and provide wrong information. Iām not too familiar with the Wizard tree, but I see a lot of people voicing their disappointment in Sorcerer and Necromancer after having picked them and tried the skills themselves. Cathexis, the walking encyclopedia on all things Swordsman, has recently advised people against picking Shinobi unless they are prepared to test the class out by trial and error. It doesnāt help that many of these classes have skills that are bugged and donāt work as intended in the first place. And of course we know next to nothing about future classes and how they are going to mesh with the existing ones.
Yes, they most definitely will. And if the changes are significant enough to change the way a class functions, people will want to opt not out of particular skills, but out of the whole class. This is the controversial point; how do we keep players happy about their characters in a game that is constantly evolving? Telling them to reroll their characters after every major patch seems to be the popular course of action around here, but it is an untenable position for IMC to take.
If your chosen build becomes undesirable in the future, for whatever reason, and if rerolling is the only option you have, youāll be automatically losing all your cosmetic items with that character. I think we agree on this one, it needs to be addressed.
Thatās all nice and well, but they canāt blindly follow their chosen path regardless of what the community wants. Itās alright to lose hundreds of people because they disagree with the game design. Itās not alright to start losing thousands. It has already happened in Korea and the recovery is slow and uncertain.
If better solutions to problems that people have with the class system are found, the game will not need a class reset. Until that time, it may well be the lesser of two evils.
But Iām starting to see suggestions, like the one to allow people to test drive a class before commiting to it, that would go a long way toward making everyone happy. So Iām cautiously optimistic about the future.
You are saying that Smite, a 2 charge and 9 sec CD which deals 1k damage at lvl 1 is a skill for tanks ? And Turn Undead ? You have two other spells which are supportive, you are a DSP support, not a tank. Even Quarrel Shooter which is not doing what it is supposed to do is more tanky oriented than Paladin. 
blue class icons means ādefensiveā which includes tanksā¦ but people forget that it also includes classes that improve group survival without being a tank.
red class icons are offensive; usually this does mean DPS.
green class icons are āutilityā, often meaning āsupportā but also including classes that just do lots of stuff that isnāt really DPS or Defense.
gold class icons run a shop of some sort.
see, this i wouldnāt hate.
a custom server. you login, create a character BAM itās instantly level 280, and has 2 million silver and 7 ājob exp scrollsā in inventory, and has token benefit (mainly for instant attribute training). job exp scrolls instantly give level 15 in the job when used. pick your advancement class and you instantly advance with no quest. class trainers still exist so you can go and buy the attributes. town statues can warp you to -any- zone, and theyāre all automatically available.
or maybe you start at level 1, and you have 7 ārank upā scrollsā¦ which bump you up to job level 15, and whatever character level matches that. (15, 42, 78, etc)
marketplace is automated: everything is for sale for 1 silver, even quest rewards and untradeable things, and dungeon dropsā¦ and is replaced as soon as itās bought. mats are listed in stacks of 10k (or whatever max stack size is.)
and to prevent the ābut omg, thatās ez-mode server, ppl will just live thereā problemā¦
a; as soon as you log off, characters are wiped.
b; server automatically reboots at midnight for a few minutes, and purges all saved data, resetting it to scratch regularly.
mind you, i feel like this would still be under-used, and people would still cry about needing class resets because they just didnāt bother to go try it themselves. and/or people would cry because they want the test server to become a real server, because itās too hard to level on the normal servers.
Thatās one way to do it. Something like this would address quite a few problems people have with the class system and lead to a healthier, happier community.
It could be a small server shared among all regions and only available as an event for one day every week to cut down on operational costs and give it that limited-time-only flair. And it could be shut down permanently if it ever becomes unnecessary.
this community? thereās no way that this community will be happy in general, no matter what IMC does.
-shared server would just bring lots of whining about ābad ping, doesnāt show me how my skills really work!ā
-1 day/week would bring lots of whining about ābut i need it on a different dayā
-shut down permanently - "but i was using that! ;-; "
and the one about bad ping not accurately reflecting how skills work might actually have some validity.
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Why does a thread start about asking for a poll and divolve into an argument about the pros/cons of a reset.
This is a highly debated topic so a poll should be made, because the current one implicates that there should be a reset.
Thre is a tiny bit above 50% for no reset, but there is no parity. If there are resets those 50% will not leave, if there are no resets you can see a ton of people leave so better make an official one that cannot be abused and be sure before going further and this benefits both camps.
There is no point having no reset when 80% are for it and there is no point in a reset if 80% are against it.
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