Tree of Savior Forum

Bosses are far too similar

You will not be able to guess which boss I’m talking about when I describe it.

This boss has the following patterns

  • Summons mobs periodically
  • Summons traps periodically
  • Stands still for a while
  • Moves towards whoever is attacking it
  • Uses a close range attack skill
  • Uses a long range attack skill

Bosses feel like renamed/modeled copies of each other, with the main difference being their attack skills.

Now, I haven’t gotten that far in the beta, but with what I’ve seen on youtube, this pattern never changes.

Worse, is that every map has it’s own boss. This is fine and all, but it will get boring if this is all we’re going to see for 200 levels.


Possible fixes. Just add any element from a boss battle you’d see in a video game.

  • Add some high ground, like 4 spots on the map. At least 2-jumps away from ground level. The boss can only be attacked from the high ground. It’s attacks can knock you off the high ground. After taking sufficient damage, it retreats to another one of those 4 spots.

  • Going off the same design as before, using high ground. The boss occasionally uses a strong attack that hits the whole screen except for the high ground. The boss does not linger near the high ground, however. Also, make the boss is covered in spikes or something so you can’t stand on it. Because apparently you can stand on top of some bosses.

  • The boss takes only 1 damage from all attacks. It summons traps that deal damage to nearby friends and foes if they are attacked. The boss takes increased damage from its own traps.

  • The boss is invisible, but it summons mobs. When all the mobs are gone, the boss is revealed temporarily. The boss can still take damage and attack while invisible.

  • The boss can only take damage from fire element. There are some torches on the map that give your character a 30 second enchant fire buff when attacked/interacted with.

I could go on for days.

Who’s up for more creative bosses?

Edit: Also, these changes shouldn’t be so difficult that you need to be debriefed before entering the instance. It should be something you see once, then be like “oh, well duh”.

Edit 2: Less is more. If a boss tries to do too many things, they all start drawing from the same pool of skills. If they do less things, then there will be less overlap so they will become more unique.

6 Likes

Yeah, we could use more diversity in boss play here.
I wasn’t expecting much from the start.
If I wanted interesting bosses, I’d be playing MS2.
(I would be but it’s a casual game meant for social interaction… as is this… English. D:)
IMC, more boss mechanics would be great!

I couldn’t agree more!!

The game need polishing, from controls to game play, rewards, translation, bug fixes, new maps and so much more and that also includes bosses aka IA.

For now we cant do anything, we just have to wait and hope IMC make those things and fix all which is needed.

new maps? bro u even seen all the maps lol? this game has more than enough lol

I hope they make boss like dark soul.
Then, i can die in happiness

1 Like

Not new maps, just maps that actually use the environment the instance boss is in. Yeah, there are fences, pillars, rocks, and stuff. Those elements are largely ignored though. They’re pretty much part of the background. If you had to actually use the environment, then that adds to the depth of the fight. Do you even remember what environmental features you encountered when you fought the giant phobo?

I get what you mean. On Crystal Mine 3F (I suppose) there was a boss, which attacked me when I touched a crystal formation. I thought I could climb the narrow winding stairs and be safe for a while, but the boss, even though it was rather big, went straight up across those stairs.

@topic
As a swordsman, I had the same tactics for every boss and had no problem whatsoever. That’s not right and should be fixed.

Agreed!!! Also, the specific patterns (if you can call them that) were too predictable. Boss fights never seemed to be much of a challenge, even when solo. Also, it didn’t seem like the bosses gave much exp, unless I missed something.

I agree with everything said here.My only contribution was that besides the 2 mage like bosses within the crystal mines all other bosses where brutes and as long as you ran around and attacked from distance most bosses where easy especially for ranged classes.In fact the only time the jump button came into effect in any combat was when I was using the swordsman.

Im certain later game bosses get more complex.

This is a lvl41 boss


And this is a Boss at lvl185

You judge.

1 Like

I mean even later. Also, “later” as in “full release”. But since you know more bosses then i do, are there more bosses who do the specters (mines F1) “lighning rod”? That ability is the most memorable and dangerous i have seen so far.

Catched your drift now. I also think there is still enough room for improvements, even after the release. I’m kind of optimistic about boss difficulty getting adjusted.

They repeat a lot of bosses tho. Almost every boss I have fought so far, I have either fought twice or seen a video at higher lvls where they fight it again.
New types of bosses pop up as the lvl goes higher, but you’ll still keep meeting bosses that you already defeated.

I have not seen another boss use that lightning rod but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before we see a recolored version of that boss somewhere.

Speaking of unique boss experiences, I want to share what I really liked about some bosses and what I disliked.

Unique Bosses I enjoyed very much:

Specter is really evil with his rod because unless you figure out that you have to destroy it, you are going to be outsustained by Specter cause the lightning just keeps coming. Which I found very cool I have to say.
Stone Whale is another very interesting fight because it just seems well-made in that you get hit when you deserve it and the beams start getting more devastating and more common later on in the fight which makes the battle more climactic. Also there is a platform to the right of the battlefield in the boss battle where you can jump on. From there the boss and his minions will not be able to reach you anymore. If you managed to find that spot, you get rewarded as ranged character by being able to shoot from a safe spot at him.
Mirtis seemed like a fair fight both in attack-speed and patterns of the boss but the unique part is when she spawns the cross-shaped lightning beneath her because she is the only boss I’ve seen so far who spawns foothold traps which are traps that are to your advantage since you can jump on them to avoid getting hit by the beam.
Capria It took me a while to figure out that you don’t have to fight all his archer minions and instead have to convert them. Which was pretty cool cause at first I and my party mate were like “how do you defeat that thing?”
Moyabruka is the kind of boss I can get behind. He has clear attack patterns and hits hard. The only bad thing about him is that he is too slow and once you figure out his pattern he will never hit you again. He urgently needs to speed up somehow later in the fight or get more dangerous in another way.
Blue Woodspirit felt like perfection in matters of how strong a boss at lvl40 should be. He kept spawning mobs, he left openings, his attacks were punishing you for mistakes but also giving you breathing time here and there.
Honeypin felt like a polished boss fight as well. The boss slowed you down with webs and spawned fitting traps to make you immobile. He kept trying to jump on you which was easy to dodge but with all the slow and traps you could easily get caught anyway if you made a mistake.

Unique Bosses that I didn’t like:

Bearkaras is the boss whose cross-shaped attack hits you even outside of it’s range-indicator and when you stand inside of him during the attack, it kills you instantly.
Simorph is able to let boulders fall down from the sky with no indication as to where they will hit from and before he casts the spell, the indicator shows you a circle. However, the boulders spawn even outside of the circle range if you are outside of the circle range. Which makes no sense.
Chapparition doesn’t indicate anything and even if you knew what it was going to use next there would be no way of preventing the damage aside from using a spell like Safety zone which made the fight feel completely skillless. If you fought him alone you would auto-lose and if you fought him with a group, you would auto-win.
BiteRegina is actually a boss I like for the most part since it has elements of predictability from it’s frontal attacks, randomness from the poison-shootings of it’s sting and high damage included all in one package. The fight feels generally fair but when you get hit by the poison, you get knocked down and a lot of damage. And where the poison shoots at is random. Right after the 1st load, Regina shoots another load of poison. Meaning, if you get accidentally hit by 1 of the random shots, you have a 50% chance of getting killed through mere luck. Which is way over the top for a move that hit you merely by chance. I feel they need to make the 2nd load at least slower so that you have time to stand up again and counter-act, instead of having to wait for your death on the ground. You will encounter a similar problem with Clymen but Clymen is so easy to dodge that you actually deserve to die if you let yourself get hit even once. Which is bad cause Clymen is supposed to be a lvl55 boss, not a lvl1 boss.
Unknocker Way too easy. You just stand next to the boss and it will never hit you once. Not sure if those coins raining down are even supposed to hit you for damage? Never happened to me once.
Necroventer works just like the Chapparition for the most part just with more bad elements included. Most of the Necros attacks will never hit you when you just stand behind him. But randomly something will deal you damage no matter where you are located on the screen and no matter what you do. The restrain attack traps feel like an overkill on this boss. Another bad element is that there is an NPC fighting with you against him. Which sometimes leads to the Necro attacking the NPC instead of you which results in a free kill for you for 0 effort.
Colimencia and Werewolf, I wonder why these aren’t bosses at lvl20,30 or 40 because they are way too predictable for their lvl. Especially the Werewolf which is supposed to be a lvl76 boss.
Mothstem has an attack where he starts to spin and then throws energy balls at you. Those energy balls move outside of their indicated circle no matter how far you run. Which is okay since you just have to keep running to dodge them but like in many boss-fights the indication misleads you.
Harpeia is another of those bosses with no indication. He either just charges towards you or throws feathers at you. The charge, like most boss charges, never hit. And the feathers always hit you. Can’t get anymore skillless than that. On top of that his damage from the feathers varies so strongly that you can either just ignore the damage or get 1-shoted by it out of the blue.
Yonazolem was both frustrating and funny at the same time. He kept spawning invisible spike traps off of which you usually bounced from one trap to the next. That is the bad part of the boss. The good part is that you have some little platforms from which you can gain height to increase your damage from Stomping Kick as Barbarian. But you don’t profit from those platforms as any other class since you are not safe there.
And I almost forgot the most important one: Ravinepede was out of all the boss fights the most frustrating one. His entire set of movements was underwhelming. He spawned traps that threw poison balls out to locations near them but you just had to lure him away from the traps and it was fine. What wasn’t fine however was the fact that he spawned poison fields in a set intervall and they spawned always beneath you, automatically poisoning you no matter what you did. His poison ticked for around 150 dmg per second and for the most part of the fight you had to keep running to lure him away, because the entire field was full with poison and traps that shoot poison near them. But running didn’t feel like a good idea either cause the poison was just ticking away at your health while you kept running around. And by the time you lured the boss to a location where no poison was, it was almost time again for him to spawn the poison beneath your feet again.
Why make the poison fields spawn beneath the player automatically? It makes no sense.

3 Likes

Though I can hope to chalk up the homogeneity of bosses to early game content, more diversity, gimmicks, and playstyle accommodation would do nothing but help the game when it comes to bosses.

I personally believe that they should increase the attack speed and take away the visible hit box indicator for the bosses, that’ll give the player a reason to actually study the bosses rather than spam attacks till the red circle appears. Also, allowing them to take advantage of ailments would be a frustrating, but interesting concept also. As for the area traps, I don’t think they should be subtracted; they’re usually not all that effective but with the implementations above the traps could become a big difference maker in the overall difficulty of a boss considering some traps restrict movements. (Bear Trap) With a ton of attack animations flying around the screen you can sometimes lose track of where a trap is which is probably what they were going for.

Overall the bosses are too simplistic, there needs to be diversity. I feel like I’m not covering something but whatever, just my thoughts. What do you guys think?

The attack speed is fine. At least for the first 50 levels. The hitbox indicator disappears past level 20. Some bosses do inflict status. Traps are fine, but if every boss does it, it’s no longer a feature. It’s just normal.

But if you describe them that way, obviously it sounds like every boss is just the same! But there are boss with attacks on specifically spots, another have a full area skill, other spawns more and more mob while some boss are just good alone, some of them throw skills that send you flying and others just kill you on 1 hit…

You’re seeing what you want to see…

1 Like

@level 185 boss

… What the hell…?

You’re seeing what you want to see

This line hits me hard. I do agree that I’m looking at bosses from a narrow point of view. However, it doesn’t change that these quest bosses aren’t very memorable. They’re just… There for the sake of being there. I fight them because I have to, not because I want to. And I want that to change. Through game design. Even if it’s something as small as having the boss talk during the fight.

1 Like

I don’t know… I think the first ones were tough… Also I like that the difficulty scales if there are more party members, but i’m not sure if it’s correctly implemented.

Now, I think saying “They’re all the same” or “They’re too easy” are two totally different things.