Tree of Savior Forum

Barbarian still OP with new skills

General Discussion
#1

Just looked at the updated skill simulator with the 3 new Barbarian skills and they are ridiculous in terms of their damage.
At level 15 - Cleave does 1364 damage, Helm Chopper does 1445 damage and Seism level 10 does a whopping 1746 damage. What’s more, Cleave has the +50% crit rate buff and Helm Chopper has an on-demand 2 sec stun. All 3 skills have overheat so they can be cast multiple times before going on cooldown and they all have between 20-25 sec cooldown.

In contrast, the old skills within the Barbarian class - Stomping kick at level 15 does 947 damage, Embowel at level 15 does 908 damage and they both have 30+ sec cooldown, Giant Swing level 5 does 587 damage with 120 sec cooldown and Pouncing level 5 does 1076 damage with 81 sec cooldown.

With these numbers, who in the right mind would choose the old Barbarian skills, apart from the buffs? These 3 new skills are clearly far more superior, blows Hoplite (rank 3) and Rodelero (rank 4) skills out of the water and is comparable to Cataphract (rank 4) skill damage, all without any weapon restrictions.

Looks like IMC still wants everyone and their mothers and their dogs to take up Barbarian.

For those in KCBT3 now who have actually used these skills, can you confirm the strength of these skills? What’s the catch, if there is any? If I’m missing something please let me know.

#4

They are very strong, but far from how Barbarian was before. Now there are lots of different swordsman, in fact most swordsman are Hoplite or Corsair, though there are a also a lot more Highlanders and a few Barbarians, but much much more of a variety than previously.

As OP as those skills sound, and as strong as they are in-game, it’s not the one swordsman class to rule them all anymore. Barbarian has almost no forms of CC and defensive skills, especially when trying to pick classes that synergize the most and offer the most DPS, so that’s why there’s a lot less barbarians now and so much more of a variety.

Cleave’s 5 sec worth of aggressor is hard to use and land a hit in PvP, nice in PvE.
Helm Chopper and Seism are also great, 2 charges for all skills, but runs into the melee problem especially in PvP of approaching an enemy, especially with mages have so much CC (freeze from a mile away), so players opt in for classes that offer more gap closing/cc as opposed to high damage, since it’s better effective damage being able to land hits on an opponent and not being CC’d to death or half the match.

In PvE, Barbs are great though! Haven’t seen one reach past 150 yet so I can’t say much for how they are later.

Numbers off a skill simulator and actual game practicality are vastly different, though the simulator is very helpful. Your best bet is to wait to either play the game, or see if people start leaking videos on the new classes and swordsman variety.

#5

I thought Helm Chopper has 2 seconds of stun?

Most skills from Swordsman classes are melee range and suffer the same problem too in PVP, doesn’t justify why Cleave, Helm Chopper and Seism are doing 1364, 1445 and 1746 damage at max level with overheat and 20+ sec cooldown when other Barbarian/Hoplite skills at max level are doing damage in the 900-1000 range with longer cooldowns. From what I see, it is just poor implementation of numbers and I really hope it gets adjusted to be more in line with skills of the same rank so these skills don’t make others look crap by comparison.

#6

Edited it to say almost*, Helm Chopper is quite hard to land in PvP.

Also most swordsman have great forms of gap closing/CC now aside from Barbarians, here are a few examples and why certain swordsman classes are highly popular now:

  1. Hoplites long stride is now instant cast, and moves to a target you choose, around half the arena’s distance and knock backs everything around the target you choose. At C3, you can get spear throw, which bounds targets as well.
  2. Corsair is easily synergized with many swordsman classes now and offers a stun on charge as well now and very fast strong skills.
  3. Cataphract still has a lot of speed for gap closing.

Don’t get me wrong, Barbarian can dish some damage out if they get you! But it’s quite hard to do, in pve they are still very good.

EDIT:

As for numbers, Barbarians strongest hitting skill is Seism, according to the skill sim this is 1190 damage at level 5. It can hit twice with overheat. If we compare it to one of Hoplites strongest skill, stabbing, which is 395 on the skill sim, then Barbarian is definitely quite strong! However in-game, a full STR Barbarian around 100 with 0 attributes hit’s around 1k. A full STR hoplite around 100 hit’s around 400 with stabbing, but hits ~15 times, so effectively 6000 total damage, great on bosses, or with taunt to force enemies to die to stabbing. One example of how Barbarians damage, although high burst from one hit with overheat, is not the highest you can effectively get in-game.

My current hoplite after the wipe, which does in fact have attributes for Stabbing, does around ~1k per stab, 20k in total, non crits, and because of taunt this damage applies to all monsters on the screen. Just from watching other barbs, they hit around ~1.5k ish on targets.

If we compare single skills, Barb can dish out 4 seisms, around 6-7k damage with 0 attributes at around 100, while Hoplite can dish out 2 stabbings, which is ~12k damage with 0 attributes at around 100, in ~40 seconds.

Another example is Corsairs new skills, I’ll have to recheck to see exactly how many hits they are, but one of the skills hit’s multiple times, and does half the damage of each barbarian skill, but effectively has a ton more damage because of the sheer amount of hits, and stuns. I’ll try and make a video of it later this weekend.

#8

The max level of those skills cooldown is not 20+ sec… It is 46-52 sec… Cata seems to have stronger damage skill than Barbarian but not sure if their skill have overheat.

#9

So we’re this far into the game, and someone needs to tell you the difference between attacks which do multiple hits using its base damage?

o__o…

Admittedly, the new Barbarian skills seem far better than Embowel at least, in terms of utility. They’re comparable to Doppelsoeldner with charges and powerful effects, I suppose. They seem way better than the new Highlander and Rodelero skills in terms of DPS, but the new Corsairs skills hit 3 times, so that’s on par.

#10

I am very well aware of the effects of multiple hitting skills like Stabbing, no need for that condescending attitude thanks. I was comparing the new skills to the old ones like stomping kick and embowel where the numbers just don’t make sense in comparison, when these new skills have stun/+crit effects too

#11

Yes the new skills are great! I do agree with them being much more stronger than Stomping Kick/Embowel, so it’s almost no reason to get those skills. But comparing it between other swordsman classes, it’s actually very fair and balanced now.

#12

Are Highlanders and Rodeleros really fine over there?

They got several skills that seemed weaker than their previous ones in terms of DPS. I do understand that from my conception of these classes, they’re play more like debuffing roles with Highlanders’ Launching + Break DEF and Rodelero’s random assortment of CCs.

#13

Rodelero for sure has low damage compared to other classes, but it’s role isn’t a DPS, and anyone with DPS in mind should not pick up Rodelero. As for CC, it’s a CC god for swordsman, which is extremely effective in PvP, and is a little nice to have in PvE, CC was something swordsman really lacked, along with good gap closing.

Highlander is actually quite strong with it’s 3 new skills, not like a Barbarian, but still quite good, especially since it can synergize with barbarians pretty well, I just see them going around slashing things with high splash on skills and killing things pretty fast. Highlanders launching is okay.

#14

High splash, I see o uo

I’d never be able to find out unless I stumbled across some footage of the skills being used… Cause unfortunately DiscKZee doesn’t prioritise on doing that.

Thank yous.

#15

I should re-phrase this. The highlander skills don’t have high splash/aoe atk ratio, it’s only 1.

However it’s so easy to get a lot now on swordsman, especially because Vubbe gloves give 2, and 2h swords give some too. I run around on a hoplite with about 11 splash/atk ratio.

#16

Pain Barrier helps to not get stun for a short period of time.Time enough to probably kill the people that can cast CC in PVP.

Freeze status is also consider a stun (assumption).

#17

Wow… so many changes in the classes that haven’t really been placed in the patch notes :confused: I think that Barbarian is just OP in PvE since mobs don’t really dodge you or kite you which is why it’s considered op. Sure if you catch an enemy in PvP, it becomes great because of the burst damage and a small bit of CC in the skills but you’d have to catch the enemy first :smiley:

#18

Your looking at the SP consumption @harimaku .There is no skill in TOS that increase CD base on level,their all have a flat CD from level 1-15.

24 Seconds CD

21 Seconds CD

22 Seconds CD

All 3 of them can be perform more than once before the CD starts

#19

Ugh my bad…Damn u SP!!

#20

Pain barrier does not actually prevent stuns (yes it does say that on the skill), I retested this after the wipe, and it still does not prevent stuns.

Freeze also does not count as a stun.

#21

Wow then I need rework my alt build then… and thanks again!

#22

Then what does Pain Barrier do?
IMO they need to rework the Swordsman class as it’s pretty bad right now…buffs not scaling and now this.

#23

Seems like it only prevents knockbacks.