Not really.
I was just being… sarcastic.
Yeah, I want this skill nerfed.
Along with buffing other swordsman skills (starting from swordsman c2 and finishing with Rodelero skills or at least cast animations) and nerfing Stone Skin. These are the changes I would like to see first of all.
There IS such a skill and it is permanent. I want it to be at least temporary.
Please, this is ridiculous.
They better nerf that. I’ve read your reply, friend, and I can tell you - skills like that are some of the few that really urges to be balanced down, even for a game with little to no worry about “class balancing”.
They have to. They must.
If not, what’s the point of having any armor anyway?
[if we’re going to face, sooner or later, an armor-crushing-plate-shattering-mind-blowing armor nullify skill]
I agree that it definitely needs nerf. But don’t forget that there are skills like Stone Skin that basically nullifies physical damage, Plague Doctor Blood Letting/Beak Mask that prevent most of CC. So Armor Nullifying skill is not that outstanding (simply because armor right now is quite weak, and especially armor affecting skills). But for sure armor nullifying skill is unhealthy. Armor ignoring is OK. 50% armor break is OK (archers have it). But 100% permanent is definitely not OK.
So you should write about ridiculousness not to me but to people who say it’s good and healthy skill.
It was so funny to see how angry priests invaded certain forum thread saying that 4x scaling on Stone Skin is totally adequate and shouldn’t be nerfed no matter what.
For sure there are lots of mechanics like this, and I don’t think they should be completely removed from the game. But some of them are just too wrong to exist in their current state.
When I said “this is ridiculous”, I was talking about the skill, not your opinion. I do agree with you and I think they better do something about those “I just made you useless in a thousand ways” skills.
1 Like
Ahem, I just uncovered one important thing. It’s rank 1 aliment according to General Mechanics guide. So it doesn’t really need nerf. Because it’s useless.
But for PvE it’s still too OP, because it forces every swordsman to get it. That’s why it needs slight nerf anyway. I think simply making it 50% decrease would be enough. It will let other armor decreasing abilities be useful.
Just like Ranger’s Steady Aim forces every archer to get it and Running Shot forces everyone to get also QS 3 in the same time. Or that Plague Doctor’s bloodletting that forces everyone to go to Cleric path and then that single build. Or even just like those powerful Shinobi skills that forces everyone to do the Shinobi build? Or like that Snipe that forces everyone to forget other R7 options? Or that increased damage on Bleeding or even that so strong Cyclone that forces everyone to get Doppel C2.
You just don’t nerf things because they are unique, lol. If it’s like that you can nerf Swash Buckling too “because everyone is forced to take it”.
By the way Archer C1 can reduce enemy defense up to 50% on R1 and insta-kill most of the monsters if you get Ranger C3 in your build.
4 Likes
for PVE it alredy lasts only 30 secs on lvl 5 (on bosses). so dont need any change
dont need to say anything else
I mean swordsman tree has no alternatives to Highlander. Ranger’s Steady Aim does have QS Running shot. Plague Doctor does have Kabbalist. I’ve seen only 3 dragoons in top 50, but not shinobi. In PvE shinobi are not OP as well. Snipe was nerfed, now it’s totally comparable to Canonneer skills. Cyclone is comparable to Dragoon skills in power.
Swash Buckling is truly uniqe (armor reducing is not). It would be nice to add an alternative to swashbuckling but there is no reason to nerf it.
There ARE skills that reduce enemy armor: archer attribute, Rodelero Shield push and lots of others. Skill that almost permanently removes enemy armor makes all those skills useless.
50% decrease is OK, 100% is not.
I want to play Rodelero making a build around Shield Push. But now I can’t because my main skill is useless if we have Highlander in the party. So why would I ever pick this skill?
I think it should be nerfed not because it’s unique but because it is NOT. It is in the same category as Stone Skin, but applies to PvE instead of PvP.
It’s simply so good that all alternatives are trash. That’s why my suggestion was making it 50% but not 100%. To let others breath.
Example: 2 different debuffs, archer and highlander, both reduce armor by 50%. Let % debuff scale multiplicatively. Now they will decrease enemy armor by 75%. It’s still very useful, none of them becomes useless. Add here Rodelero, it will decrease enemy armor by 225 more. So if enemy had 500 armor then every of them alone will decrease armor by ~50%. But together they will decrease armor by 100%. This way they complement each other.
If Highlander has 100%, then he just comes and says: “You are useless trash, go throw yourself into the window”. And strips this poor boss from all his armor by alone. So any other armor removing class is outclassed by far.
PD is the only one CC preventing class out there. And it doesn’t outclass Kabbalist. They are just completely different. While Highlander does outclass anyone but Peltasta. So there are only 2 classes out there. Peltasta c3 and Highlander c3. Any other class has to build themselve around those classes. But Peltasta benefits any single handed weapon equally, and it can be utilised pretty well even at circles 1 or 2. It doesn’t outclass any other tank class, because there are no other tank classes.
Highlander, in oppose, benefits 2H swords much more then any other weapon and its circle3 potentially outdamages any other class. It means that any build not including Highlander C3 will lose in terms of DPS to build that includes Highlander C3. And it’s wrong.
It’s fine that it has “only” 30 out of 40 seconds uptime. So it now only needs to be changed to 50% defense decrease for 30 out of 40 seconds in order for archer passive and Rodelero shield push and every other guy’s defense decreasing abilities to be useful.
50% is still huge amount and 75% is still huge uptime. It will just turn effortless uncomparable skill into alternative skill with good synergy. This way having rodelero and Highlander on the same party will benefit both of them instead of making the former even more useless then it is.
It won’t affect PvP anyway, neither it will hurt/kill highlander.
It will just make more builds viable. You will have a choice: to get defensive low damage rodelero with short cd short duration flat armor reduction or high damage highlander with long cd long duration % armor reduction. Or maybe archer with stacking armor reduction. Or maybe all 3 of them and completely ignore enemy armor. It’s what is called the Choice.
And it’s the right way to do things.
we alredy have “the choice” if u get highlander c3 u wont get cata, barbarian, peltasta, hoplite, etc… and the only skill u get for c3 is skull swing.
also:
-dragoons got a damage bonus for large monsters and bosses (passive one!!).
(if someone go for highlander c3, he/she is probably going for doppel not dragoon)
-hoplites have +150 CRIT RATE!! so they can go almost full str. or get highlander c2 and hoplite c2 and use some of highlander skils with +100 crit rate
-barbarias have frenzy and warcry, that can add up to 1200+ atack if used with deeds of valor
-and hoplites have spear lunge that DOUBLES pierce dmg for 12 seconds, with low cd.
so there are plenty of options beside highlander c3 if u want do dmg
2 Likes
Yeah, you can’t get c3 with those classes, but any of those classes is inferior to Highlander in terms of DPS. Also Highlander scales super good in late game because this defense destruction will ignore bosses armor no matter how high it will be.
Dragoons have 10(!!!)% damage bonus against bosses. And it’s rank 7 class vs Highlander rank 2. You can freely get hignlander and dragoon.
Let’s compare Full STR Highlanders and Hoplites. We have a boss with 500 armor, 300 crit resist. Our damage is 2000. Our STR is 500. 150 crit rate is 22.5% crit chance at most. Let’s assume 300 more from gear and FULL SPR Krivis for -200 crit res.
Highlander can get 2 Hoplite ranks and Dragoon. It will destroy the armor and grant x1.33 damage on autoattack to the whole party. And It will get only 50 crit rate less, as well as spear lunge. And it has cross guard that also DOUBLES damage from pierce attacks. And it stacks with spear lunge, as I know. So the difference is 50 crit rate versus 500 damage to the whole party. I don’t think we need to calculate to understand the difference. And Hoplite is higher rank.
If we compare Barbarians with Highlander, result will be even worse. Because this 1200 att will require you to take 10 hits from boss and deal 20 autoattacks. And it will be still 800 damage. Compare with instant +500 damage TO THE WHOLE PARTY from 1 Highlander skill.
So there are no options which can’t be performed better by highlander.
u are going to use this skill only on bosses bro, all the other things u said can be used during all dungeon not only on bosses.
@Derael @Lenny
Let’s stop the argument here before it gets any worse, if you would like to suggest a change to the skill then this isn’t the place for that.
Leave in peace. 
Thank you.
2 Likes
Firstly, I can easily use this skill and all the other highlander skills on dungeon. If paired with Falconer it’s armor break debuff becomes AoE. Also Highlander has quite a lot of means for mobbing.
And the question is: Why would I prefer for example Hoplite C3, if I can use Highlander C3 and get so much DPS increase on bosses w/o losing too much mobbing power?
Why would I go barbarian who can’t maintain it’s stacks without spamming autoattacks if I can just go Highlander+Doppelsloender and simply spam cyclone? Or get the Hoplite C2+Dragoon and deal even more damage to bosses (500 bonus damage for all the dragoon multihit skills).
Highlander simply makes any build better because of one this skill.
Honestly I wouldn’t have complain that much on this topic if not the one big problem. I wanted to play rodelero and build around Shield Push that reduces enemy armor by 225. But I can’t, simply because Highlander does the same but much better. So my main lvl 15 skill is useless comparing to one of his skills. Not only all of his skills deal more damage, but also he has more utility.
I simply don’t like the fact that I can’t use this build and be at least as effective in this field as highlander. Highlander wasn’t even about armor break from the start. His main power is spammable 4x damage skyliner.
And the only strong point in rodelero skillset is utility, which turns out to be useless.
Highlander won’t even lose anything because of this nerf. 50% defense destruction would’ve been great from the start. But Rodelero will benefit from it a lot.
It’s totally peaceful argument, I just want to understand why people think that mechanic that kills purpose of other classes should exist in the game.
Because someone doesn’t agree with me, then I might be wrong about this topic. So I’m trying to understand his point of view to suggest solution that will make everyone happy. If absolutely most people will agree with it, then it’s a good suggestion for developers. I need to at least understand, why people don’t like the idea of 50% armor break instead of 100%. Then I might think a bit more and find a better solution.
So, why do you think, it’s a bad idea to make such a change? It won’t break this unique mechanic, nor it will make it weak or useless. It will only free some space for alternative choices.
If you have better ideas how to make all those armor reduction skills comparable in power to Highlander Skull Swing or at least useful without nerfing the latter, then I would like to hear your suggestions.
1 Like
i understand your point, and thats true, if u want a build focused on reducing enemy defense with shield push, its better to take highlander.
they could add a -2% with the flat defense to shield push, so at lvl 15 it would be -(30% + 225), i believe it could fix the problem for u. and make the class more attractive to pelts, so they can do something more than block =)
buut rodelero have tons of debuffs, montano stun + slow, target smash darkness, slithering imunity to magic dmg, high kick strike bonus, shield shoving turn around and shield bash.
so i believe the class strength is the amount of usefull buffs/debuffs. its a “blue” class, a defensive class, so its not made to do big dmg like a dps (red) class. so making this change can unbalance the class i believe
and only making skull swing remove 50% of defense, will probably make every highlander c3 go for other class in that rank.
ppl alredy say that swordsman isnt good for dungeons if they dont have peltasta c1. and i think this skill can make up for that (so 2H pure dps can find dungeon pt better)
so if they decide to nerf highlander skull swing, they would need to add another skill or a passive. increase the dmg somehow.
i always thought that 2H swordies needed a passive to increase mov speed while dashing (they could add one like this and u need to be using 2H sword to activate) but for me this should be like a doppel c3 passive.
so in my opinion, if u want to go rodelero, right now the best thing is to focus on the other utility skills and leave the defense reduction to other classes.
all the debuffs i said above can help ALOT of classes increase their dmg and make your life easier in dungeon/mobbing, so i wouldnt worry so much.
I personally won’t change my highlander c3 builds even a bit if they nerf it. Especially if they compensate it with lowering the CD to 35 seconds and ideally swordsman c2 buffs. I would like to have a stun at swordsman C2 to apply bleed from thrust and trigger Skyliner double damage. This will make perfect synergy between swordsman c2 and Highlaner classes.
And I agree that while nerfing this skill swordsman definitely need other buffs, including mobility.
The problem with rodelero, is that all of those utility skills are almost useless in PvE and this is the only one skill with a good potential, because it’s literally a 225 damage buff for a whole party. I was really worried when I realized that Highlanders have this 100% debuff, I was always thinking it’s 50% or flat.
They definitely need to buff swordsman c2 like they did with archer c2, wizard c3 and cleric c2 in order to make it very tempting choice for lots of builds. Doppel is already in a very good state as secondary dps along with archers, so I think those quality passives should be at swordsman c2-c3 ranks. Because every class needs them.
I would also like to see new abilities for Scout, it’s good overall but has too much spare skill points.
And seeing Sadhu buff would be awesome.
Overall, I hope they will improve the game a lot and fix all of those “killer” abilities so I would be able to play something unconventional without a risk to turn useless one day.
cool ideas, but i really think they should add that to doppel c3. cus cataphrat dont need it, hoplites have finestra and long stride, but 2handers dont have any good gap closer.
lots of variables, hard to decide xD
So, hypothetical question:
If you were making a swordsman and you had to choose either C2 Highlander C1 Peltasta OR C3 Highlander, which would you choose and why? Assume you are more focused on PvE.
Somewhat related follow-up question:
Is there any swordsman who should EVER not take Peltasta C1 for Swashbuckling?
i would high2 pelt1 95% of the time
it just depends on how much dmg the extra 5 skyliner does
and how much def skull swing reduces.
only sword who does not take pelt is a
sword3>high2>doppel>shinobi probably the best pve shinobi build