Tree of Savior Forum

Archer Revamp Brainstorm

Well, yeah. The other side of this is you have no way to avoid some attacks like instant single target skills like AA’s and oblique shot (and other shots) spiral shot, etc other than eva or block (with the occasional jump if you have good ping). With block attached to CON we see the current plight of archers going against high con (and therefore block) build

I got that bit, I was jus trying to imagine what you meant by that, and temple shooter fitted what I got from that.

I guess we sort of have something like that, like for example mergen. To be honest I almost exclusively play hunter falconer so I don’t really dwell deep into the tree, but, I don’t seem to recall all that many skill to be used from really far, perhaps cannoner’s and musketeers, other than that I guess that archer is maybe a worse wizard.

Ranger
High Anchoring Crit resists attribute has its duration increased to 8s.
C3 Attribute Where it also reduces Enemy physical defence for 8s when fully charged.
Steady Aim duration increased to 12 seconds from 10.
Steady Aim: Enhance: Also increases damage proportional to Caster: STrength/SPR.
Bounce Shot - Overheat changed to 3.

Add a C2 attribute to Ranger that increases aoe attack ratio by 1 with crossbows and muskets.It increases aoe attack ratio by 2 with bows

Scout-
Perspective Distortion Attribute: Changed to 7% from 5%.
Perspective Distortion: The range of effect is increased.

Rogue:
Burrow - Now works with Double gun Stance. Critical increased per level buffed to 6%. Now also increases the Skill level of affected Skills by 15% per level rounded down.

Vendetta: Stat gain is now a portion of Dex/STR * skill lvl.

Rogue C3 - Gains Extreme Dagger Mastery Attribute: Damage with Daggers is increased by 5% per attribute level (max 5). Evasion is increased by 15% while equipped with a dagger.
.

But this is pulled out of my ass.

Ultimately.
Ranger - Is supposed to be the aoe specialist of your three choices at Rank 2. However the majority of its aoe is lackluster and could be tuned to have some more permanence through debilitating effects or utility.

Scout - Just feels like it lacks identity.

Rogue - A hodge podge of things relating to buffs. Vendetta is a buff, as is evasion, sneak hit and Burrow. It has 4 buffs which sounds awesome but then most of the buffs are fairly unwieldy if we’re being honest. It has dagger usage but there’s no r8+ support for daggers and it really lacks a solid emphasis on the weapon to make it worth keeping. Hell you don’t actually require backstab in your build. Burrow is kind of like a poopy alternative to shinobi clones. I mean that in this way: Shinobi clones amplify the value of early rank skills, Burrow similarly is limited to only some early rank skills but unlike Clones has not been updated at all to be more attractive.

Yeah. Hence my bit about calling archer a “bow swordie”. Bazooka 10 has +80 range on it and it was really refreshing to be able to reach that far with an AA build (QS3). I couldn’t hit anything with skills but +80 range AA felt amazing.

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I want to share something on my mind about these skills…

Fletcher
Barbed Arrow - Toggle On/Off
When Toggle On - Apply Every Bow/Crossbow Attack/Skill (Consume 1 Barbed Arrow, No SP Consumed) :
Increase Block Penetration 20 + 2 x sklvl (At Level 15 = 50)
Ignore Target Physical Defence 5 + sklvl/3 % (At Level 15 = 10 %)
Decrease Target Critical Resistance 10 + 2 x sklvl (At Level 15 = 40)

1 Overheat Also Count As 1 Attack
Attribute At C3
Increase Block Penetration 5 x attrlvl ; maxattrlvl = 5 (Max sklvl & attrlvl = 75)
Ignore Target Physical Defence attrlvl % ; maxattrlvl = 5 (Max sklvl & attrlvl = 15 %)
Decrease Target Critical Resistance 4 x attrlvl ; maxattrlvl = 5 (Max sklvl & attrlvl = 60)

*** Current Barbed Arrow Skill Is…One of The Worst I’ve Ever Seen. It’s Need Totally Reworked.

Crossfire
Explosion Attack Deal Same Damage As Attack
Slightly Decrease SP Required Per Overheat By 10 % (At sklvl 15 ; 130 >>> 117)
*** 150 % Explosion Attack (lvl 15) Is A Joke

Divine Machine Arrow
Explosion Deal Damage To Every Enemy In Area, 0.25 Second Before Explode
Current Attack Damage x 1.5 (At sklvl 15 ; 871 % >>> 1,306 %), 2 Overheats
New Attribute At C3 : Increase Area Of Divine Machine Arrow’s Explosion
*** Current Ultimate Skill Of Fletcher Is Suck, This Should Make It Great Again

Magic Arrow
Make Aiming to Target Lock Instead of Non-Target Lock, Show Skill Icon at Targeted’s Status Bar
Damage Type is Missile
Change Attribute “Silence” To “Mana Burn” : 10 x attrlvl % Chance to Burn 10 % Of Target’s SP ; maxattrlvl = 5
*** Make Skill More Relate To “Magic” In Its Name

Ranger
Steady Aim
Buff Duration 30 Seconds + 2 x sklvl (At Level 15 = 60 Seconds)
Cool Down Durations 60 Seconds - skvlv (At Level 15 = 45 Seconds)
At sklvl 10 ; Buff Duration = Cool Down Duration
Increase Missile Property Attack 5 + sklvl (At Level 15 = 20 %)
Increase Accuracy 5 + 3 x sklvl (At Level 15 = 50)
Increase Critical Rate 5 + 5 x sklvl (At Level 15 = 80)

Attribute At C3
Increase Missile Property Attack 2 x attrlvl % ; maxattrlvl = 5 (Max sklvl & attrlvl = 30 %)
Increase Accuracy 5 x attrklvl ; maxattrlvl = 5 (Max sklvl & attrlvl = 75)
Increase Critical Rate 8 x attrlvl ; maxattrlvl = 5 (Max sklvl & attrlvl = 120)

*** While You Focus Aiming On Something, Your Eyes, Arms And Hands Muscles Are Stressed So You Cannot Stay Focus Long. Hence Buff Duration Is Not 5 Minutes Like QS’s Running Shot But You Can Increase It With sklvl And Re-cast For Continue The Cycle At sklvl 10 Make Its C2 Worth.

I love crossfire, but it badly needs some damage and useability features like making it’s interface just like casting fireball or multi-shot (it’s so hard to use with a controller), a multi-hit attribute at c3 would be very welcome too

It’s not the identity of QS3, actually. Running Shot makes no sense on this class when you check their other skills + their icon (color + symbols). The identity of QS3 is about defence.

^
running shot should be put into archer3 imo, suits the archery life more
qs should become a tank class, give it some knockdown immunity and the ability to go into a blocking stance, like peltasta

perfect to extend into canoneers, being stationary nuke lords

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suggestion
( archer)
fulldraw == just remove it ( it’s the same with anchoring in ranger skill anyway)
oblique shot == remove the cool down is enough I think
kneeling shot == I don’t get what the imc geting the mobility type into
twin arrow === the npc skill is more impressive than player had =.=
(QS)
deploy pavice == erm should this go to scout instead where they can set up pavice + auto crossbow at the fix location?
(ranger)
sigh… what the point when the aoe class just skill limited 5 to 8 mobs to take damage
barrage == just 120 degree cone damage with 5 slots range unlimited target count
high anchoring == either here or archer there
crit shot== this one shouldn’t it better to assimilate to the steady aim buff at attribute skill learner there?
time bomb == erm it should be at sapper there
bounce shot == make it area of effect of 3x3
(sapper)
stake stockage and punji stake is it not the same pattern skill???
collar bomb and time bomb what the difference?anyone?
broom trap and spike shooter this is a set wasn’t it
sigh so many SP wasted in this sapper class
(hunter )
many mention those bug AI, I wish I can control like world of Warcraft hunter version
coursing= work good in mobs , hated in pvp …no use against boss monster (wish it had aoe damage and activated agro drawing at the same time)
pointing and hounding just merge them up
praise =effect pet and user like buff
rush dog the rushing line will deal damage till to the targeted mob and knock back 1 space and stun on chances
growling =.= just go for berserk mode aoe for pet in dealing damage 500% for 30 sec in 10 minute cd
(wugushi)
blow needle have a slow effect on target
zhendu== wasn’t this a buff effect ? make it craftable also for 5 minute duration each use
lower the consumption when using poison
(scout)
a buff for sprint skill ?20 sec? I think it’s cool since pvp needed to run off to and fro frontline
camouflage===why just boxes how about plants ,rock and certain terrain?
should it also had a skill buff of disable trap or detect trap for 30 sec duration?
=.= nothing to comment in rouge …all is meele anyway
(fletcher)
crafting arrow == make crafting more easier like 1set ingredient makes 1 set of 10 piece( since it’s a class that use crafted arrow only)
magic arrow make it to a buff for fletcher only ? when activated will only fire arrow which consume mp per shot like SR ( if they out of crafted arrow)
falconer ==no comment right now since it’s the one of the best dps
(SR)
evasion action should be under limacon attribute skill learner (its a buff =.= )
caracole === lift the CD since it need to charged to use and single target too omg ( a very pity skill )
wild shot and concentrate fire ??? IMC out of idea what to implement ??? this 2 skill is the same just the concentrate fire more 1 hit =.=
caracole and limacon spread for god sake make is a 3x3 aoe at the target center instead of bounce 1 (for what that 1.6k plus skill point invested for and why so scared IMC archer MP is very limited roughly around 4.5k to 8k )
(cannoneer)
cannon shot and shot down skill ?? oh come on …seriously???
cannon blast ----wasn’t cannon suppose to deal splash damage ? doesn’t make sense if not
smoke grenade… please go to scout or rouge omg =.=
instead of bazooka make it flame thrower ( ehem… suggestion)
hackapell didn’t use it to know the effect sorry
(mergen)
upgrade version of ranger sigh …
(bullet marker)
silver bullet … IMC being funny sigh… why not just make it a buff skill which u can choose holy ,lightning and fire for 5 minute using certain item for certain attribute buff
the dual wielding skills is good
full metal jacket have the smash bullet added as effect is nice
napalm bullet which shot fire damage but no DOT effect
tase the targeted nearby enemy will also suffer lightning damage
well for now …no need to chide me I just give my thought out thanks

I couldn’t agree more.

I agree with you there.
Their theme and their Running Shot dont fit each other. However, it’s the reference for attack speed builds. If you think “I want to hit fast”, then QS3 is your answer.

They have nothing to do with Siege Archers whatsoever. Which they should.

Might I ask what this theme is that you all seem to know and agree on? Looking at the qs3 kit I see 5/6 skills (Counting stone pick/shot as 1) being dps.

Pavise does damage with a change of bleeding. It has a KD as well. The defensive side of it can only protect against AAR related skills.

Caltrops is basically the “QS nuke”.

Stone pick/shot is decent damage with a huge stun but is not even ever used outside pvp because the stuff that matters for single target are usually immune (wb). The latest iteration makes it even less desirable to use.

Rapid fire is a purely DPS skill.

Teardown is another DPS skill that requires something to destroy to work. Add to this the fact that it only really works against 2 classes (other QS’s pavise and deiv statues) out of so many classes in ToS. I would love to see this insta-gib templar structure for laughs.

If anything the theme of QS would be dps that can provide some utility.

This discussion gives me a great idea for a running shot change though.

you basically just looked at the class and said “what does deepz???”
picked that ■■■■ out then deemed it as a dps class lol, if we follow that logic peltasta would be a dps class, since the majority of its skills do damage.

on theme alone, just as an example, caltrops are defensive weapons used to slow down enemies approaching the qs, yes they do “sick damage”, but think about the theme…

remove all the “dps” from qs and see what your left with, thats the theme,

Well yeah. Every single skill aside from stone pick does damage while only 3/7 “protects” you or others with a steep condition attached to said protection.

Exactly. Peltasta3 has only 3/9 skills that offer protection of some sort (again with steep conditions) while 8/9 of those skills involves something to deal damage.

The simple fact that it does “sick damage” is what makes it a dps skill that can slow and kb. It’s a “damage” skill.

Oh, let’s drastically change the kit by removing a function from roughly 86% of the kit to unearth a theme that supposedly encompasses 100% of the kit.

Still haven’t seen this well defined theme. Mine is “dps with conditional support”.

so your defining theme based on “damage”

theme is far more broad than “this class has lots of damage so its damage themed”

“dps with conditional support” is certainly what the class does but that does not mean its theme is a damage dealing attacker, like what your suggesting here.

think about why they gave qs the blue class tag, and why qs use a pavise and caltrops in battle, the way they are played in game doesn’t necessarily dictate the theme of the class(using caltrops as a nuke)

its on the developers to align the class to its theme, what the people were saying here is that qs doesnt align with its theme, since its usage in game drives it as an attacker over a defender

It’s blue probably for the same reason corsair, enchanter, and plague doctor are green. Majority of ToS’s experienced players know to not trust the color scheme IMC has in place.

This theme (that has yet to be properly defined up to now) that you hold the QS to is clearly not what the developers have in mind given how we still have basically the same damage dealing skills (with 1 actually getting a buff of 300 sec duration) after a rework.

exactly… like i said its up to the developers to align the class with its theme, if they fail people will point it out, for example the qs being a blue class, but actually being used for its damage, over its almost non existent defensive utility.

i dont know why you cant see the obvious…
the dominant idea behind qs is that they use crossbows in order to wield shields in battle…
isnt that enough to suggest, the thought that maybe, just maybe they are defenders, not attackers.

that buff is mostly just an outcry from the community, its something they have been doing across the board to many buff type skills, so i dont think its related to them suddenly deeming the qs to be themed as a damage dealing attacker.

Well tbf, medieval crossbowmen brought pavises with them because medieval crossbows take AGES to reload compared to an archer using a bow, so of course they need some cover while reloading.

That said, having a realistic slow-firing crossbow isn’t fun at all to use in a game, but IMO a QS should be suited more to immobile playstyle (think Dievdirbys). Hence you really should switch the places of Running Shot and Kneeling Shot around. After all, Archer circles already have something thematically similar to Running Shot, which is Swift Step. Would probably also need to change Pavise a bit, make it so that the pavise takes damage for any party member that stands inside a fixed AOE of the pavise.

Color does not actually have a definition defined by IMC. People assume blue = defense because you see it on the official page. You also see a blue class tagged attack only in rodeleo and cryomancer while a red class is tagged attack, defense in murmillo. The only consistent thing among “defense tag holders” (and not blue colored classes) is the ability to reduce damage. It could be for you or others but the core factor is reducing damage someone takes.

This is not actually stated but inferred so it can’t be enforced as “the rule” specially if it is inferred by non IMC staff.

I am asking for this “obvious” because I want to have a clear basis to construct my arguments from. The terms defenders and attackers are not self explanatory. I can defend someone by attacking this someone’s enemy. I can attack someone by defending this someone’s enemy. Shields are commonly used as blunt weapons so that can’t be the basis for “defense”.

All I can say is it lines up.

This on the other hand is a pretty solid argument to which I share the sentiment towards pavise.

This is a brilliant Idea actually.
maybe they can give pavise some aura too that gives something too like diev or paladin ?

then they should give it one.

your grasping at straws here… you know what im implying.

yep they were used in sieges, i said in a post before that they should emphasize qs as a defense class, so it leads into canoneer as a stationary class.

good idea lol, i actually suggested almost the same thing, just put running shot into archer3,