Tree of Savior Forum

Annoucement on Trade restrictions is bs

General Discussion
#1

@Staff_Julie @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_J @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Shawn @STAFF_John

Economy is an important part of an MMORPG. It’s difficult to maintain one, yet very easy to ruin.

THIS is the only sentence that made sense out of the entire page.

we’ll be able to quickly notice the discrepancy when an item isn’t sold at its rightful price. The problem is, it’s difficult to maintain a set price on every item in the game.

Please do tell me how you are able to tell how much an item is worth before anyone sold it. Are you going to monopoly the market now and say this item can’t be sold for xxx amount? You just said it’s difficult to set a price on every item in the game.

To tackle this, we have also implemented mechanisms to limit one-way transactions through the market. With our current market system, once an item is sold enough times through the market, highest and lowest market values are automatically generated. Players cannot list items at prices that exceed this range. On top of it, there’s already a limit on how many items can be listed.

Seriously? do you not see 1 big flaw in this system? If a gold buyer lists an item for 2 mil, that item is now impossible to sell because you cannot list it too far below 2mil. It now is ruined because someone else sold it for a impossible to sell price.

AND how does limit on amount of item listed prevent gold selling again? Since they buy it/sell it instantly.

Didn’t you just say economy is easy to ruin? guess what that item is ruined now because it’s impossible to sell it because of the average price.

In addition, trades are temporarily held for 48 hours upon completion. This gives our staff time to detect and cancel any suspicious transactions before buyers and sellers get their goods. In the future, we hope to reduce this time frame by developing a system that can automatically detect and block such suspicious trades. We are continuously working on this function.

I’m glad that was what it was there for, but I hope you know that this also made it 1000x harder for a regular player to make any money off market because in TWO days he would have outlvled the need for the little amount it would have sold for.

I can safely say a lot of the players won’t even use market for a lot of their things because they get the silver now from npcing them instead of putting it up on the market where they have to wait 48h IF IT SELLS.

The statement they made makes 0 sense and the restrictions have way more impact on regular players than gold sellers.

Soon you will have a dead market and a dead player base if nothing changes.

But based on your point, it’ll be fine because of “less gold sellers” right. No.

21 Likes
So they made a statement about trade restriction
The "Pay-To-Win" Token Scandal
#2

Yep IMC is being dumb. But keep fighting the good fight and don’t give them a cent till they make change. Vote with your dollars, thats the best way to make them feel it.

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#3

This is really just a PR statement to keep white knights and the money whales happy and productive.

IMC knows what they are doing, it’s obvious at this point that they are going to milk players for whatever money then can and then ditch the game.

This has nothing to do with RMT and they know it.

3 Likes
#4

FACT : IMC hate people making silver in-game unless you pay for token

They can remove class like Squire , Alchemist and Pardoner out off the game already

4 Likes
#5

Im usually one of those, but after that last announcement they aren’t getting a cent more from me till i see changes i like.

1 Like
#6

I doubt IMC secretly “supports” (or just ignore) RMT. Gold sellers “steal” money from IMC afterall.

Like I’ve said in my other topic, I just think IMC is following other MMO’s ideas of crippling in game features to fight botters/gold traders. But I don’t support this idea.

In my opinion, the way to fight bots is with smart anti-bot systems and not removing game features that also hurt players.

2 Likes
#7

Because lots of people have sold it? Obviously for the first transaction it would be very hard to grasp its value. But IMC made the game. They know which items they intended to be rare or which ones are garbage. Simply comparing a transaction to one on a similar scale should say enough.

Except their 48 hours would have reversed the transaction meaning that the 2mil price would be ignored.

Again. 48 hours. The purchaser cannot get the silver until it has been cleared a legitimate transaction.

I don’t think this game encourages profiting off the market, rather it encourages farming items and materials yourself.

#8

Oh my god they LITERALLY DESCRIBED IN DETAIL in their post how each part combats RMT.

#9

yea and its all lies, play the game. You can see how they BELIEVED it would work, isn’t what happened.

2 Likes
#10

And i said before anyone has sold it.

And back to the first point, how are they going to reverse the transaction if they used a item that hasn’t sold before.

Don’t see the problem and the flaw in this system they set up yet? It’s a chain reaction, because they couldn’t reverse it that item is now unsaleable because it now has a average price sold at 2mil.

And you realize the market slot frees up after the item sells, so this basically is 100% pointless.

Why should the game not encourage profiting off market, it’s a diablo style game where you farm items to either use or sell. You lose alot of incentives to farm extra stuff if you can’t sell the item.

#11

And I said how in that case they would determine the value of that item.

If the item was worth anywhere near the amount it was sold for then that’s a fair trade. It doesn’t matter if that fair trade has been done with a bot or a human because it doesn’t destabilise the economy.

They control the game. Seriously. If they wanted they could create a jillion bosses with a trillion health and a gazillion drops or a super mega sword with +9000 attack, and you’re worried about whether they can press the cancel button on something that’s been put on hold for 48 hours?

Yes they can reverse it.

The problem isn’t what the gold seller does with the item, so this is a moot point. Rather, it is the silver that is being injected into the economy, which is the thing put on hold and reversed.

So you want to have your cake and eat it too? Obviously to protect the economy something had to give, and in this case it was people playing the monopoly game.

Selling an item you farmed turns effort into silver. If it is a legitimate transaction then there is nothing stopping you from earning your silver. Sure you may not earn as much as a token user, but then that’s one of the benefits of being a token user.

#12

It is easy to identify an economy that has been affected by RMT. It has inflated balls to the walls. Currently it hasn’t, therefore there is no RMT.

#13

If the item was worth anywhere near the amount it was sold for then that’s a fair trade.

You aren’t paying attention here, my entire thing is basically saying they are going to use a item that hasn’t been valued on the market.

Meaning unless IMC says you can’t sell a specific item for this amount there’s no way they can regulate gold sellers.

And if they regulate it like that, how would you feel getting banned for selling that random purple that dropped because they suspected you for gold buying because they thought it wasn’t the right price.

#14

And if the “silver buyer” pays the right amount for that item, then well done! No damage to the economy. That’s the true goal of fighting RMT.

IMC KNOWS what items are valuable or not. They created them in the first place. Any good player with knowledge of the drop rates and crafting recipes can look at an item and determine its approximate worth. This guess does not have to be that accurate. If the transaction is anywhere near the price of the item, it does not affect the economy.

Yes. However, it’s fairly obvious when a common drop for a mob sells for say 1 million silver, something fishy is up.

Purple equips are always going to be expensive. The point isn’t that IMC determines the price and if the market price is different then its RMT. It’s that if the price is abnormally high or low then it will raise a flag within the system and a GM can take a look at it.

#15

Why would a developer know the true value of a item, it’s set by the 1st player that gets it.

In what game did the developer know what price a item is worth.

And mind you, only dumb people would use a super common drop because chances are you can’t use it anyway since they has the average price set in place.

But it’s not hard to get something “rare” and a item’s true worth is to the buyer.

Are you a art collector, would you ever spend 1 million on a single piece of art? exactly.

But what if there’s this one guy that desperately wanted to finish his collection and the weapon he needs never dropped for him, while the person selling it knowing he got lucky placed it for 1mil.

It’s a rare drop, but the weapon is garbage and probably only worth alot to those that care about collection.

Would IMC know that this item isn’t worth that much? the stats on it would be horrible.

And now he got banned because the stats on the weapon is garbage since IMC thought he was gold buying.

#16

The bots are going to be the first players to get a rare equipment? Maybe IMC can just look at the logs of players involved with that transaction. Noone said that a suspicious transaction was an insta-ban. It simply flags the transaction for the GMs to take a look at.

A rare item that is not hard to get means that it is not rare. If you are referring to items that rarely show up on the market, maybe there is a reason they rarely show up, like either they are indeed hard to get or because they are too common and are better off being NPCed.

That’s true. However, [quote=“Nepnep, post:15, topic:180515”]
Are you a art collector, would you ever spend 1 million on a single piece of art? exactly.
[/quote]

This is the most horrible, irrelevant example for this discussion. Art collectors spend 1 million on a single piece of art because THEY ARE ONE OF A KIND. THEY ARE RARE. If you could buy a piece of art for 1 million or a 100% IDENTICAL piece of art for $10 which would you buy?

Much better example. Like I said however, shifty transaction =/= ban. The GM that takes a look at it would be able to see that

  • buyer is missing only that item in collection
  • seller has a clean play history and is not a bot/gold seller
    Therefore he would mark it as a clean transaction and move on.
#17

… The player would be the first player to get it and he sells it for a unreasonable amount.

Bot farms silver buys item, it’s the opposite.

Also I used that example because it’s a comparison.

The SELLER here is the buyer of gold, and the buying is from bots.

You are thinking the opposite here, and you honestly believe IMC would look through every single collection. Do you know how many collections there are? there is that many maps x 5ish items in that collection which comes out to be thousands of items.

How many transactions do you think there are per day? Do you know how much work it would be to manually look through every single one of them? You can’t do this automatically.

It doesn’t have to be the last item either, he could really have wanted to get that one done first.

And he could be legit buying gold because collection people are rare, i’m saying it’s impossible to determine between them.

This is just 1 of the examples here too; It just shows how much inconvenience it is to have this restriction.

For them and for us. So why have it? There are still going to be gold selling and buying going on.

#18

You are dump and OP, sorry if it hurts your felling, and dot worry i will buy TP twice as much for you and similar like cheap people.

#19

I didn’t say I wouldn’t spend money on this game, but that just me reason to complain because I am spending money on this game.

1 Like
#20

My mistake. However, like I said, if the bot pays the correct amount of silver for the item, then it does not do any damage to the economy and the player just paid them for nothing, which is silly and has nothing to do with IMC.[quote=“Nepnep, post:17, topic:180515”]
Also I used that example because it’s a comparison.
[/quote]

It’s not a comparison. A one of a kind item is worth a lot.

A transaction consists of one item. They would only have to look through one collection.

And sell the other items for an incredibly low amount? With the possibility of them getting sniped? Now you’re not even making sense.

What does this even mean? If it’s saying that theres only a few people who see the value in the item because everyone else NPCs it, then that is only a limited few circumstances, and a quick look at the player’s account and play history would reveal that they are indeed legitimate players and not gold farmers.

Of course it’s going to be inconvenient. There is no perfect solution that eliminates RMT while leaving regular players completely untouched.

If you remove these restrictions the economy will inflate and RMT will shoot through the roof, eventually becoming the only way to obtain decent gear.

I have mentioned this several times, but gold spammers =/= RMT happening. Chances are many of them are just scammers.