Tree of Savior Forum

Allow class resets please

General Discussion
#61

Well, just hope that they give us more events to collect those tomes. A number of my tomes are from founder days where they compensate us for server malfunctions. Bought quite a number of tomes too, but yeah they are really expensive.

Yep reset no matter how we package it is just a bandaid to the issues the game has, which are:

  • Linear, repetitive quests
  • Class imbalances

The former can be mitigated by introducing branching quest lines in which only alts can undertake to get more storyline. Like for example:

Player A uses character1 to get to NPC1, gets quest A.
Player A uses his alt character2 to get to NPC1, the npc will say

“Oh a family member of your has greatly help us previously, but something else has been bothering us since his/her great endeavor. We would like you to help…”

This allows the player to get more story and lore when he revisits the npc again and further promotes players to roll more alts. Makes the game a lot more interesting and have more replayability too.

As for class balancing. The core thing to fix is to change the way skill damage is calculated. Change them to percentage values based off attack/magic attack power instead of flat values. This makes all classes viable for end game. Want a swordsman3+pelt2+barb3 for your R8 class? Percentage damage is the way to go.

With this 2 in place, it reduces the need to request for a class reset due to wrong builds as every build will be at least viable in end game situations.

#62

this is really good, like those japanese simulator love(hentai) game where your action determine the subsequent storyline etc…

IMC really should make new quest line every so often so we’ll have reason to go back lowbies map.

With or without alts, but more cool if the quest system would recognize alts and achievement etc

#63

No I wasn’t trying to insult you. Sorry if I sounded like that because I’m not really good in English. Just relax and treat this as a friendly discussion. I’m neutral on this matter by the way but I see more pros than con so far.

You might say people can pick up what skills others are using by observing, but that does not tell them what skill level the person is using. Players will have to choose the skills based on what they need. As I’ve said previously, there will be similarities since there are only like 4 or 5 skills per circle. Not like you have many to choose from. What ultimately makes the difference is the stats and skill levels which cannot be observed. Learning every skills at lv1 doesn’t make you a master of everything. Any player can observe all they want, but If the person messed up at the "make a conclusion’ part, he is done. r.i.p.

In the end, if a player can ‘copy’ others by observing, good for him, that’s a great skill. I’m not sure which mmo are you talking about but alot of mmo these days allow multiple skill trees(usually unlock through premium items). Tera even allow skill reset anytime for free, yet there are differences. This is what I’m talking about. Using circle reset item and levelling from scratch is no different, other than the effort you will need to put in. Even if you can afford a circle reset item, you still need to level up first. Not like the reset thingy give you any exp or level.

1 Like
#64

[quote=“Csiko, post:37, topic:327267, full:true”]Very wrong. All MMOs include questing, but the questing and leveling experience is to teach you how to play the game. You progress as you level, but through leveling you learn more about the game. It’s why someone who has only a level 150 thinks about this very differently than someone with a couple 280s.

People can keep rolling meta builds if they think it’s easier–bad players will always do that though and never understand why something is good, or why it’s popular in the meta. They’ll regurgitate it like it’s the best thing ever but don’t know how it works, and cry about class balance when the meta changes because they can’t adapt. Again though, that’s every MMO.
[/quote]

Good luck looking for those quests which help you PVP, raid world boss, GvG, ET or even find a grind party for non-meta build at end game, lol.

The experience from ToS Questing is just about kill certain mobs or a weak boss, discover zones for hidden stats, collection…

Early game quests also support Solo play because they are easy and most people always want to do their own quest as fastest as possible they don’t want “another burden”.

[quote=“Csiko, post:37, topic:327267, full:true”]
People can keep rolling meta builds if they think it’s easier–bad players will always do that though and never understand why something is good, or why it’s popular in the meta. They’ll regurgitate it like it’s the best thing ever but don’t know how it works, and cry about class balance when the meta changes because they can’t adapt. Again though, that’s every MMO.[/quote]

Meta build are still much more reliable than random builds, if you have no idea what should you pick next?? better wait for pro players to find out.

While those bad elememe crying about how they don’t have enough silver to roll WB cubes, players with random build still mediocre from the start till the end while waiting for IMC to buff their class, it would take years.

Unless IMC decide to destroy whole elememe (meta) build, which not going to happen because it will kill the game.

Then a balance patch from IMC strike down and your favorite class stay at SADhu level.

Nobody know the future

#65

SAY YES CLASS RESET :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#66

Yes I agree, this is a xasual game after all. Allow class resets.

1 Like
#67

You dont realize this because youve probably been playing a while and people forget, but running through the quests and killing stuff teaches you how to play the game. Which is killing stuff.

I know on my new characters the more i play through the quests and stuff the easier it becomes because im learning about my skills and character. Which combos to use and when. When i get a new rank with more skills i have to spend time to work that into my rotation, when to use them, etc. I play using a controller though and it takes a bit of running through quests and killing things before the skill placement becomes second nature and i dont have to think about it.

These quest lines lead to dungeons which teach you about the mechanics of world bosses since many are designed after them and ET is just a more difficult dungeon.

How can you say playing the game doesnt teach you about it? Try doing a dungeon on an unfamiliar character. Then play through some of the quests progressively and see if you do better.

#68

It’s something I heard about on Wakfu, because Wakfu was having a hard time bringing in new people as a bulk of players were high level, so dungeon instances were always a big long waiting game for lower level areas.

#69

A lot of games are like that. FFXI for example had major problems where everyone was on end game content and wouldn’t care about anyone new unless you integrated within an already built community to help. Then they added in a whole bunch of things like level syncing, changed exp values, ect. over the years.

Problem is mainly with people’s mentality of just being so narrow minded and closed to changes because it won’t affect them other than more people to fight or camp your stuff. They won’t come out and say that but you absolutely don’t learn -anything- from this game’s quests and grinding at all.

Doing a quest where you have to RNG if something is inside a bag or not is a learning process but frustrating. Going into over crowded camps with bots and AFK farmers teaches you nothing other than this game has problems with the spawns sucking and players cheating. Waiting in a queue for hours doesn’t teach you patience but that there’s nobody else seeking or the instance server sucks.

Anyone who thinks this game is well documented or explains everything is out of their mind too. There’s tons of things that aren’t easily available without going through tomes of forum posts to find maybe a single post which may or may not answer a question. This game shouldn’t be like that where you’ve got be a scholar on IMC’s little hidden niche mechanics to succeed because they put in tons of pitfalls on junk skills and classes.

5 Likes
#70

Class Reset is a heck of a lot easier to program than class balance. Class Balance, depending on the competence of the developers (how much do YOU think IMC has of that?), might not even be a possible goal at all.

Of course, there’s a chance IMC can’t even program class resets either.

#71

Quoted for emphasis.

Also quoted for emphasis.

And another one.

To add to these points, it seems like ToS is a game where one is required to do extensive research before actually playing/making a character, and I think that’s poor game design. Basically this:

While I don’t believe it’s inherently bad that the classes are very in-depth, and I don’t believe the concept of researching builds is inherently bad (I do it myself anyway), I think if new players find ToS and decide to play, and play without looking on forums or doing any research ahead of time, just building what they think sounds cool, these players should not be punished for later discovering that what they thought seemed cool and effective is not as good as they had hoped.

Giving these new players an opportunity to correct mistakes made along their learning path without having to completely remake the character is, in my opinion, a totally fair thing to ask for. I, for one, would prefer to quit or hold onto a sub-optimal character over remaking it–but I’d be super bummed knowing it could be better. So, in regards to the point “class reset will reduce population/deter new playes” I would argue the opposite–I think if players have an opportunity to retry their builds, rather than be forced to remake if they make one mistake, players would be more inclined to stay and continue playing.

Low-level population should not DEPEND on veteran players re-making characters. Anyone who uses that as an argument is a dumb. :V

1 Like
#72

[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

You.

And yeh, if they remove/remake a skill on one of your classes and nerf it to the ground, this is all your fault. Or if you pick a R7 class and when they release R8 classes the C2 sucks, it’s your fault.

GOD GUYS YOU JUST HAD TO BUY A CRYSTAL BALL.

#73

its definitely not imc’s fault.

#74

Wow. I don’t know what to say, your argument is too strong man.

:sleeping:

#75

You only need to do that once. But ToS insists we have to redo all those quests for stuff we already learned the first time around whenever we reroll a character. No wonder why so many of my friends just quit, instead.

2 Likes
#76

Oh well. ToS is the only game that insists you level your character again when you make another one i guess.

The comment was about him saying quests dont teach you about the game. If youre not making the same exact character you already made then the quests still help with you learning your character. That is all.

#77

Picking flowers off the ground and walking back and forth from NPC to NPC while talking to baby pandos or summoning npc shaman dolls to destroy portals via an item is the same gameplay experience whether you’re trying to roll up a C3 Necro or a C1 Lancer or a Monk Sadhu Priest Plaguedoctor frankenstein build.

You know what teaches you about your character? Killing monsters in a remotely difficult environment. Something that 90%+ of the quests in this game do NOT ask you to do.

2 Likes
#78

but jchang… those mundane item gathering quest thingy is supposed to help full support character to level…

while yes, its kinda stupid in a massive-alt game to repeat those quest, but boring doesnt mean broken…

class reset will not make TOS into a interesting game over night.

any kind of reset is just like condom in your wallet coz you’ll never know when ya gonna get laid…
And when you do get laid, definitely dont need to worry about any consequences, morally, socially, whatever

while i agree Class Reset is good, i dont think its the solid answer to all the problems at core.

Reset is just convenience.

#79

Its ok you dont have to understand. I dont care anyway.

#80

I beg to differ on this. As you can see for ALL the computer games out there, not just MMOs only, there is little to no documentation at all from the developer about the game. The developers don’t talk about the detail mechanics of the game, they wait for players to find them out themselves. The developers aren’t going to spoonfeed the player as it will undermine the discovery aspect of the game. This is what games are, to make players discover things and make use of the information they had to traverse the game universe they are in.

Let’s talk about an AAA MMO WoW, one may argue that there are sites out there like WoWhead for WoW that gives detailed information of everything WoW has, but who creates and maintain those sites?

Most if not all of the information about the game are player contributed.

The player communities are the ones who contribute all these detailed class guides, build guides, quest routes, farming/grinding locations etc. Then players who are enthusiastic about the game will create hubs and websites to house these information, making online repositories for the benefit of other players who share their interests. This is how websites like wowhead or diablofans come about.

If not for players like @Gwenyth, @Veritas, @Wurmheart, @SlyGoat and many others who collect and share information with us, we wouldn’t even know so many things about this game. Thank you guys for all the hardwork and graciousness in providing such valuable data for the community.

Using “game not well documented” as a reason to promote having resets isn’t valid at all. All games including our beloved RO are like that and we are dependent on the community to collect and document the game.

Easier to program doesn’t mean it is the correct approach to take. It is easier to just distribute exp cards than to create new maps too, why not just create a new mission that dispenses exp cards on completion all the way until 330, then don’t need to create new maps and content at all. Make ET scale to 330 too since it is easier that way too.

See your logic here?

1 Like