bump, added point 8 about the complete lack of trading silver between players without the auction house.
Paywalls donât stop RMT traders or botting. Is FFXIV or WoW bot free? These are IMCâs competitors (to a degree). Was any research done?
I didnât see any threads complaining about trading up rn, as much as i hate bumping i donât really want imc to think we forgot about it in the waves of bot sellers and commander loadfail blocking our dungeons
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I would just be happy with a way in party to set a roll for drops. Would alleviate a lot of this âthe boss dropped him a staff a need and I got his swordâ issues.
I couldnât see the harm in this, itâs hardly radical.
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The ToS community can not let this issue die down. IMC needs to change their unfair business practices.
Itâs not even favorable for them in the long run, the current trading system is a cash-grab and once enough people are fed up their money fountain will dry up and theyâll just close out the game.
This is the worst case of monetization i have ever seen. Locking a fundamental, basic mechanic of any MMORPG behind an 18$/month paywall is the greediest thing iâve ever experienced and the gaming community in general has to be protected from these things, we canât allow developers to think that this is acceptable.
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- Token is pay for convenience. Convenience of if your friend happens to get x item, you can trade y item for it and win win. Nothing stops him selling the item on the market or you from farming silver and buying it. Silver is plentiful in this game, itâs just that thereâs many options in terms of using it. If you decided to learn an attribute instead of save up for said rare weapon, then that is simply the opportunity cost of your decision.
It is âconvenientâ that you can just borrow potions from your buddy instead of going to town. This is not pay to win. Yes it is a cash grab. How else do you think the game will survive? The reason this is okay is that it is not the only way to advance.
- The potential system does not in any way affect the point presented above. It is designed to create an item sink for the market, thus reducing the effects of inflation. Like I said, the token benefit is pay for convenience.
- A bot spamming megaphones does not 100% prove that the current system has a loophole and RMT is a legitimate way of obtaining silver or gear. It could be a scammer trying to get your money. Now as many people have pointed out, a bot can buy your overpriced cheap item and send you the silver that way. This will never be completely preventable. What IMC has done is made it obvious enough that they can crack down on it before it starts to affect the economy. This has been done in the following ways.
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Market items are anonymous. The bot will need to make an effort to find your item to buy.
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The 48 hour time limit to retrieving silver from the market. This a) gives IMC time to investigate suspicious transactions and all parties involved and b) prevents the effects of illegal silver on the economy. Letâs say you bought some silver from a gold farmer. If the 48 hour restriction was not in place, you could use the silver to enhance an item to say, +13, then sell it on the market. The poor sap who bought the item hasnât done anything wrong, but how do you fix this? Do you punish him by deleting the item? Ideally you would look up that specific market transaction and refund the silver right? Now imagine doing that process for however many transactions are made by this one player. The 48 hour restriction not only prevents this, but frees up the GMs to investigate other things instead of getting caught up fixing the damage done.
If bots sell silver or items by purchasing a token then purchasing an item on the market to trade to you, then a) itâs extremely inefficient, b) requires multiple hurdles and does not guarantee the silver you paid for, and c) actually helps fund IMC. Itâs excellent. IMC earns money then they can go ahead and ban said bot, since it would be extremely fishy for a player to constantly farm silver only to spend it and immediately give away the item.
- Was fixed already, judging by what I read. Anything like this you can simply report to IMC and provided it is a legitimate issue, they have demonstrated on more than one occasion that they will act on it.
- No clue how that analogy works. This is to stop players purchasing one set of gear and trading it between all their characters to gain the full effect of it four or more times. If this was possible it would greatly increase the gap between the rich and the poor as those players farmed high level areas and bosses for valuable loot to sell on the market, or âfundedâ a low level character to be able to wipe out dungeons and stuff instantly, turning the game into a solo grind.
- Someone tell IMC about this. Was probably overlooked just like the alchemy issue. If itâs been fixed then excellent.
- See my response to team storage. Also, it provides replayability. Combined with the many character classes it encourages you to take the adventure again with friends, swapping roles. The class system is not designed for you to rush to a high level, try it out then restart and test out the next one. Thatâs what YouTube videos are for, to let you see the merits and downsides of each class and work out which one fits your style.
- Trading silver directly enables RMT. Enabling it would be even worse for the economy. And Iâve explained the 48 hour wait.
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Yeah roll for drops. Mage getting a badass sword. Yeah, roll that drop.
Wholeheartedly agree with this solution. Solves the trade issues while still blocking gold sellers.
Since when is trading a convenience ?
Now instance dungeons are convenience, world boss are convenience, global chat is convenience, whispers are convenience, friendlist is convenience, storage is convenienceâŚ
Letâs put everything behind teh token \o/
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Because you can essentially purchase items with items as opposed to with silver. Rather than selling all your good items on the market for silver which you then purchase your desired item with.
I donât see how this is hard.
There is a good reason why this stoped working irl.
It sure is Slippery Slope Fallacy in here.
Heâs not wrong. Trading is a very social aspect. Gotta put your foot down somewhere, otherwise weâre going to have to pay for parties and guilds.
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He is demonstrably wrong. Just because X happens does not mean that automatically Z will happen.
It is fear-mongering and it is 100% wrong.
Itâs principal behind it. Tree of Savior, as it stands right now, is so anti-social it is insane. I literally cannot grind for anything in a party of friends unless everyone has a token and trades leftover. There is no loot system of any kind and honestly, partying with anyone, beyond faster quest clears and maybe exp is pointless.
Being able to trade is a very important social aspect of a multiplayer game. It makes things much more fun. IMC just wants to charge for it. It doesnât stop RMT at all. I can understand being unable to trade silver, but basic gear? Common materials? Get real.
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Why can you understand being unable to trade silver, but not items? Not trying to be confrontational, but I legit want to understand why that is the case.
Since, as was stated, there are workarounds to everything, why not allow silver 1:1 trade?
One thing that token-based trading helps fight against is the gameâs econ devolving into a barter system, it helps retain the value of silver. Also you can always determine the value of silver based on the value of a token in the AH, since it is the $ equivalent to in-game money.
Token-based trading doesnât fight against anything. All itâs doing is requiring money or silver for a trade. A token can do everything youâve listed without keeping trading hostage.
I legit donât understand why this concept is hard for people to grasp. Token-based trading doesnât stop anything. Itâs simply one more step someone has to take and itâs one that is quite easy to take. Token prices have already began to inflate and itâs barely been a week into the gameâs life. The price has already doubled, going from 200k to 500k. It will only get higher.
If you want to hide behind the token trading system, why not go all out and simply remove trading all together? Thatâll show those RMTs, right?
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I am sorry but all i wanted to know was why you are against silver trading but OK with item trading.
You do realize that if IMC holds that stance they will kill the game pretty soon right? Iâm sorry, I know that youâre trying to find a reasonable argument behind being anal about language and definitions, this is clear IMC pushing the frontier of monetization.
This practice is not only dangerous for ToS but if gaming consumers allow this to happen, this aggressive and damaging money scheme might spread to other games and continue to advance.
Iâve been playing MMORPGâs for over 20 years, they have all always had unobstructed trading. This is not any added value. This is a trick to make people like you spend a large sum of money early in the game, while other players (who are more careful about their money) leave. Effectively IMC will milk you and whatever other unaware payers remain until you are the only people left in the server. Soon after the game will die because some of you will find out that paying for a solo MMORPG isnât fun.
The end result will be a short lived game which squeezed every last penny it could from itâs player base before just closing doors. Itâs a âmake money and ditchâ strategy by IMC.
And i donât mean this as to try to be offensive or superior at all, itâs just that I and many other cannot play this game in itâs current state, and if you and a few others continue to support these harmful practices you will inevitable kill the game. Youâll only enjoy your solo-ToS for a few months and then it will be gone.
Besides, what harm would it bring to YOU if trade were allowed? Would it really make the game awful for yourself?
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Well the obvious answer is because it makes RMTs have to use other revenues to actually give a player silver, but socially, silver is the least required thing. If you want to work together with players towards a goal, you generally farm things for materials and trade them in for items or craft. Not many goals require you to grind out silver for unless it involves the market place. Silver is distributed in parties rather fairly. I never have to worry about my friend stealing all my silver.
Gear and materials are more tangible, they are less common. You can be in a situation where you need gear and materials but your friend doesnât. Everyone can use silver and everyone can earn silver in a party setting and roughly the same pace. Now you can argue that round-robin in a party will eventually evenly distribute gear, but that would only balance out, in the most average cases, after a very long period of time. So itâs not realistic.
Basically, gear and items are more sociable. In terms of living, you donât really need silver unless youâre trying to cheapen out a grind.
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