I really don’t like this. I feel like the towns are going to be flooded with shops if everyone can just create multiple alts to sell on. If you couldn’t play another character while a shop was open, than the only time a person would have their shop up is when they are offline or afk.
I actually like the feature, you wouldn’t need to use your computer energy just to maintain a shop running (people would end up multiboxing to obtain the same results, which would be way worse xD).
And about the flood, remember that this game has a multi channel system, so if you feel that the channel is too flooded you can always jump to another channel 
Reminder: These are all C5-6 classes, and they have little to no combat-related skills. (Squire in particular has Arrest which is a powerful utility skill but almost useless solo)
I doubt that many people will choose to sacrifice more powerful skills just for the option to…earn some money by afking the lv 150+? character and play something else.
Well don’t these classes have a ton of utility even when not AFKing? Like lets say that you’re about to do an instanced dungeon and you want to clear it without any casualties and as quickly as possible.
Squire will allow you to get buffs from the food table and upgrade your equipment for an hour both for defense and offense. Of course Arrest as you said is also very good in a party but not very good solo so… group play more fun? 
Alchemist also can distribute potions to party members that increases your stats and are generally better potions than the NPC shop for a relatively cheap price. Potions are always needed even when solo so it increases your sustainability when fighting anything really. You can solo as an Alchemist anyways because if you chose a DPS class in the previous classes, you’re probably fine DPS wise considering a lot of the Wiz classes are support or CC anyways.
I got nothing for Pardoner .-. you can give scrolls to people?.. I dunno lol.
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The guy I replied to was worried that there’d be flood of shops in town and I mentioned some of the reason why it might not be so (they might be out in the field or the combination of high rank + loss of the more combat-oriented class might result in the population of these classes not being that high)
Also, out of the 3 classes Alchemist is the least beneficial for party.
Potions you can buy off other alchemist on market, all the other shop functions take a long time to finish (I believe 1 min for Brisquetting?) and depending on your party you might not even need to use the potions at all.
On the other hand, Squire’s weapon repair and food buffs (at the very least the SP regen and max SP ones) are useful, the camp work as storage + free warp point makes for potential to farm multiple spawn points just by rotating to each spot -> warp back.
Pardoner’s spell shop buffs last much longer than Priest’s own casting, although the scrolls fall under the same case as Alchemist’s potions.
Remember this is comparison between just those specific circles.
Going Alchemist means you can’t go Necromancer, which is a definite sacrifice on your offense/defense power (i.e. in combat C6 Necro will have advantage over C6 Alchemist assuming C1-5 are the same)
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Of course, alchemist may seem like the least beneficial for party is because your comparing short term results over permanent effects. Additionally, Alchemist are needed to min/max equipment for min/maxing near the end.
To say that alchemist has no offensive power is a little weird. All the ranks (cryo-pyro-etc) leading up to alchemist is there to supplement lack of offensive skill(s) in alch (after all alch is in the mage tree and not cleric -_-). Sure, the damage might not be crazy because you didn’t go one offensive class once (also necros have their own set of issues that they have to work on). However, that doesn’t make alch dead weight to a team. You can easily hold your own and then some.
Just because you went a crafting route at rank x, doesn’t mean you lose all your previous abilities and attributes.
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First part - yes it’s nice, the point however, is that you don’t need them in your party for that. You can get the alchemist to do that in town and take someone else along (or rather, given he duration required, you’d do it in town)
Second part - I’m not saying they have no offensive power, but that taking alchemist route at that rank means you sacrifice what you could’ve gotten with the alternative (which doesn’t have to be necro, it could’ve been 3rd circle of Elementalist for example)
So it’s not that Alch is a dead weight, but if you look at 2 Wizard of the same C1-5, with one as C6 Alchemist (full crafting) vs a non-Alchemist, there’s almost no reason to pick the Alchemist.
Now that I’m looking more closely to the Wizard class tree, every rank you go up, there is either a DPS choice or a support/cc choice.
Pyro is DPS, Cryo is CC. Psycho is DPS/CC, Linker is Support/CC. Thaumaturge is Support, Elementalist is DPS. Sorcerer is DPS, Chronomancer is CC. Necromancer is DPS, Alchemist is Support.
From what I’m seeing so far, only Rank 2 - 4 DPS are worth getting (not saying the CC from those ranks are bad) considering Sorcerer summons have AI issues and are kinda slow for the SP drain it has while Necromancer has issues with corpses and summon AI. If they fix these issues with the summons and such, the classes would be a solid choice for DPS but for me, I’d prefer the CC over the DPS when past Rank 4.
Of course If you’re going for Rank 4 Circle 3 then all is good but if you’re going Rank 2 Circle 3, you’re stuck with weird AI but still having more DPS or CC or support (although you are right about Alchemist potions being worse than the Pardoner and Squire… mainly the Squire which is pretty good in parties IMO).
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You could say the same thing for pardoners. Why bring a pardoner to a grinding party if you can just buy it from a spell shop. For Squire, why bring a squire if you can just squire when you get the buffs when you get it in town? Also, extra hp and sp is cool and all can be made up through pots. Every one of the crafting class does a weakness and a strength.
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I would agree with you on that point on picking other mages if picking damage was the sole quantification. However, partying is both simple and complex because its not all filled mindless people. Sometimes, damage isn’t the only criteria (are are cases for selecting a party member. Your payoffs aren’t going to the same as the payoffs as others.
Alch A, Mage B
Examples:
a) Would a guild leader chose to bring a fellow guild member, alch A, or a more damaging stranger Mage B? Sometimes, you will chose the alch to invest into the future for your guild.
b) Friend alch A or more damaging stranger Mage b? well friendship @.@
c) Alch A with a rank progression that synergies with yours or Mage b whose build doesn’t synergies with your but does slightly more damage then Alch A?
d) Case where alch a or mage b one shots everything your grinding? Wouldn’t you chose to befriend and curry favor with alch?
e) Bring Alch A or a more damaging Mage B when both can help you kill the boss? Sometimes, Alch A will get chosen since their damage would be less of loot threat (scumbag move, but its out there)
f) Also chances the alch will be better geared then most other mages since they have the $$$ and skills to improve it is pretty decent
g) A rich Alch A offering silver or a slightly more damaging Mage B. Sometimes Alch A if your greedy >_<
etc…
If damage is the sole qualification for accepting a mage into the party, then sure alch will lose out in finding party if that were the only case. Heck some parties accept people on the sole basis that your around their level and they need someone.
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I plan on going Alchemist as my first character, but I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t like it if I had to carry a crafting class at max level. The only exception would be is if it was to help a guild member farm materials for their crafting, where they would give guild members free items or upgrades in return. A few months after launch, I would expect that everyone who leveled a crafting class to have made a new main to farm on and would no longer make any exceptions for Alchemists or Pardoners. I wouldn’t mind grinding with a Squire, since they seem to have more active utilities with the Base Camp, Food, and Arrest.
No one likes a leech, and I would never expect anyone else to carry me as a max level Alchemist. As soon as I hit the level cap on my Alchemist, I plan on rerolling another character as my new main. However, there may be hidden classes at rank 7+ that change my opinion on all this; Plague Doctor perhaps?
I was thinking the Plague Doctor linked to the Alchemist as well in some way.Maybe it comes with a healing skill or two? Something to give more value to Alchemist offensively at higher ranks would be nice,but I wouldn’t expect it from Plague Doctor.
IMHO, I don’t think that because you pick Alchemist as a rank 6 class it would mean that your character is completely useless for other roles… you had 5 other rank choices that are still useful in a battle, and it’s not like you had to spend stats because of it, since they don’t affect alchemist skills (or at least it’s not proven yet).
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Pardoner actually have Indulgentia, which according to another source have a massive AoE it can hit.
For Squire, the camp alone justifies bringing one, the food/repair can even be considered secondary. Also, I’m pretty sure the food require being in the squire’s party. The repair is the only thing you can grab from town.
Also, pointing out other class’s weakness still doesn’t go against the argument that Alchemist have it WORST OF THEM. -
Now you’re just being picky isn’t it.
a) b) Not in ToS, but I play some games with my brother who’s absolutely terrible at games. But that’s the exception rather than the norm.
c) ‘2 wizards with THE SAME C1-5’
d) If you can see them one-shotting things, probably which ever enter your vision first get invite or just invite both.
e) if someone can calculate the players’ playstyle + damage difference potential, I’d like to bow to him.
f) Unless Alchemist sell the service/potion for extremely high price/sell REALLY well, I’m not sure about the $$$ part. And the ‘skills to improve (gear)’ is usable by anyone so long as there’s at least 1 alchemist shop in town with that thing up.
g) be the guy in e, take money, invite the other one, win win.
To be honest this ‘who’ll get taken’ argument is almost pointless, the game isn’t hard enough that people have to sit down and look at 2 candidates, chances are it’s just 1 Cleric for heal + fill the rest just looking at level and roll with it.
Alchemist will probably have 3 circles at launch, since IMC one time or another said that they planned on 10 ranks, but that’s still just speculation. If, however, there are 3 circles in alchemy, than the best route for crafting will likely involve going to circle 3, and losing 3 circles to crafting will put a pretty large damper on someone’s damage/support.
You will very likely be unable to run an optimal group with crafters in your group. You shouldn’t put it against someone if they don’t want to party with you for having put a few ranks into crafting. I always try to be in the 90th percentile in games, so my opinions on this are probably a bit more extreme than others.
I doubt it will be hard for crafters to find groups though.
Every will have their own opinions and just so happens that you think alchemist is the worst of the three and that’s fine. Mine is pardoner = alch < squire for partying (outside factors excluded).
Those are just hypothetical examples to justify that party interactions and formation isn’t solely based on choosing damage as the sole requirement/reason (but it can be and it’s totally up to you on matter) for a party member, but i guess you got lost on that idea judging by your responses to those examples. I’m just responding to your “there’s almost no reason to pick the Alchemist” and saying that simply is untrue. I’m more along the lines of PiriPiri “I doubt it will be hard for crafters to find groups though.” And yeah there should be no offense if some people don’t want you in the party because of the few ranks into crafting. Just means that they have different objectives and plenty of fishes in the sea. If your lucky then you might find people with similar ideal.
Me being picky? (@.@ lols i’m hope you didn’t take the response as an attack on you or something like that). Just a simple debate on “(full crafting) vs a non-Alchemist, there’s almost no reason to pick the Alchemist.”
But this topic has derailed from the original purpose of “All about alchemist crafting skill information”
I thought I already implied it wasn’t an absolute statement with the ‘almost’ part.
And I already mentioned in that last post that this…argument…is almost pointless simply because by its nature the game isn’t going to require min-maxing to be successful, therefore the whole ‘between Alch and not-Alch, pick one’ situation is unlikely to occur.
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And let’s leave it at that ( a difference of opinions).
Honestly in grind party it doesn’t matter what job should be in. Everyone can be useful (as long as they not standing idle and leeching).
I was in party without healer / oracle and we grinding fine. I was in party with oracle / healer and we grinding fine. Buff from some job just make it easier or giving more benefit to whole party but in the end it’s not something that mean ‘must have for every grind party’. It’s all depend on party if they want to make it as required job for their party or not and party who didn’t require those job can still live with grinding if they know spot to stay.
Range is big but limit target.
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You also have to realize that they still have to spend the time to get to rank 6 so it will take a lot of their time.
It will really all depend on how important it is to grind extremely fast, or how difficult things become at the level cap. A lot of grinding spots I found while leveling pretty much cap out how quickly you could clear them, so running with a sub-optimal group is perfectly fine for leveling. Unless you have friends, wasting time looking for top tier players is only going to slow you leveling down.
Getting back on topic, do you guys think that Item Awakening should get any buffs? Some of my ideas:
- Increase the duration of the 30 minute buff you get after you complete an item world. Edited
- Have mobs in the item world give exp and drop loot
- The weapons you Awaken don’t give stats that are completely useless, such as crit on a staff.
I’ve seen some crazy good awakenings on items, so it might not be necessary at all.