Tree of Savior Forum

Alchemists community

Class and Rank Wizard
#21

LOL thats called collusion bro, its illegal in a few countries. For example, if there is proof that 3 different pharmaceutics are colluding and selling all their merchandise at the exact same price(when they come from different providers/lower price/different manufacturers) then they’ll be fined. Its a common practice against free market. There is only an “illusion of choice” for the consumer, since everywhere he goes he’ll see the same prices.

Imagine if on everyone did the same for arde dagger? “Hey guys, lets all sell arde dagger for 1.5m and not less than that”. Its supply and demand, prices for alchemist will rise on itself when supply rises.

#22

The problem here is that thanks to the record of KToS we know that unless there’s some sort of organisation Alchemist will end as an straight up non-profitable class due to undercuters… like in KToS.

Most people Roast their gems once they reach high levels (both characters and gems themselves) and by that point chances are you are loaded, thus a price like 30K really doesn’t hurt your pocket all that much compared to the longterm benefits of the roast.

Look, I’m not even al Alchemist nor I plan to ever make one, but whenever I see a fucker undercuting roast and pots I get a tad angry because people can and will follow that guy to keep their sales making the class lose it’s ppoint more and more overtime. Which isn’t a good thing.

1 Like
#23

So you understood my point. (Thanks for giving the right word, and adding some extra info)

That’s our goal : engraving alchemist goods price in ice (basically, potions and roasting).
Why, you ask me ? Why do we want to play against the ~glorious~ free market ? (putting aside the fact that the only thing forbidding colluding in the free market are laws, colluding doesn’t oppose the ~free~ nature of the free market)

That’s because in ToS economy crafting classes are doomed if we start letting the prices plummet.
Once the majority of alchemists will start undercutting themselves, prices will plummet. It happened in iCBT2, it happened in kTOS, it will happen again in iTOS. Excuse me if I don’t want to prove it.

And now, that’s the interesting bit.
And so, what would happen in a real economy ? Either you go bankrupt, either you sell tons of (now) cheap things for okay margin (because you improved your process), either you sell new things for higher margin (Hi Apple !).
In ToS, we can stop playing the class 1)
Stop making profits because the process will never improve 2)
Ask the devs to create new skills and give us free reset 3)

So yeah, I’d rather befriend with my alchemist mates in a profit-oriented community than 1), 2) or 3). That’s better than burning the class until potions aren’t worth anything anymore.
_Wow talking about economics in english is hard V~v

1 Like
#24

Thats the thing tho, that never happens on real life economics. Unless the practice said company is doing is “predatory prices” where they sell products at a price below their costs(and the industry’s costs) making small new competitors go bankrupt, again thats forbidden on my country.

The people who sell stuff for 6k/keep cutting the prices will eventually go bankrupt or will stop doing it if they think that its not worth. However, if someone thinks its worth for him to make 500 roastings a night by selling it at 10k, thats his thing.

I understand the point used here, but my point is anywhere from 10k-30k would be acceptable imho. The only thing the TC is trying to do is artificially inflate prices. I personally dislike this part:

“I’ll start with 30k and then I’ll try to raise the prices a lil bit each time to see if people still buy it and set a higher community price”.

#25

Well don’t think u can lobby here :smiley: there are to many alchemists and the market is just small right now :slight_smile:
U need either trust to each other or leverage on each other and u will get none of these .
I think the hole skill should be changed a bit and should be dependant of the quality of the gem…
The problem is noone will roast his small for the time being gems … especially not for 30k. And not many have their highend gear with max level gems.

If u could sell for 2k with small win a roast for a small gem like a level 3 one u could get on the leveling market… And yes if someone has his maxed level gem and his endgear weapon he would also pay 100k for a roast but this will not happen that often ;/
So the roasting service cost , needed items , and price should be dependant on the quality of the gem.
And it should be structured that the possible profit rise with quality but the quantity will obviosly fall.
This will not prevent some people to undercut everything but will open up the demand !.

mfg
Majin

#26

Game mechanic itself is what we can’t change.
So thats why I’ve made a proposal which can be implemented by us :smiley:
And btw you shoud look at this.

2 Likes
#27

I hope they fix this class since I’m almost Alchemist C2 and got this for my friend…

Really sad the awakening stats… even my Tilly Rod gave me 9 crit… CRIT being a wizard class.

Awakening.png625×610 524 KB

#28

Check added 26.04.2016 part. Hope it helps a little.
In my post i’m not saying about pure money flow from roasting.
I just suggest that Alchemists doesn’t have to work for nothing. (5000s prices eventually can be seen) But get a liiitle reward for being one :slight_smile:

And answer to your 1st question:
Why 30k? Because I’m not perfect. Like all people i have some dependancy on other ppl opinions and got some habbits. I played on cbt2 and prices of 35000 without tax(!) worked super well. And like I’ve said in my post - 30k it’s only start.

So while i understand what you are trying to do, it goes against the free market.

I have a theory that IMC doesn’t wanted chemists/squire/pardoners to get profit, because game became very crowded with shops. So this is already not a "free marketing’

And not I’m but WE are :smiley:

(I’m personally think there is no “free market” sentence. Market it what always have a rules. Before that moment they were dictated by IMC only.)

Probably Alchemists union even is like ppl fighthing for their freedom :smiley:
Just joking . Sry for my english. I can’t feel how much I polite, unlike if it was on my native language >_<

#29

Don’t awaken weapons, you fool !

@Chiday
Though the point is not really to set the roasting price at 30K (or even more), the point is to make everyone set the same price, which would be fixed by the union.
Once the union will be acknowledged, it will always be time to talk, between us, about what is the “optimal” price :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#30

LETS DO 30k ! I’m DOWN

Freddie from orsha here ^¬^

I was once selling 10k before but now I just found out of 50% tax…

BYE 10K and HELLO 30K+++

1 Like
#31

Yeah me, please let the alchemists you see in towns know about this and send them to this thread

1 Like
#32

So who is creating a Discord for Alchemists ?? I’m from Klaipeda and this is still an issue on ktos and I don’t want this to be an issue here as well. Let us tell every alchemist we see about this, send them to this thread and let’s have a discord channel and be organized I didn’t level up this character to earn 100 silver per roast, I leveled it because the attributes of my main and the consumption of skills are pricey as they can be, also the trading is limited and prices of mats are locked and overpriced on market so it makes potion making a real struggle so WHO’S WITH ME

#33

I’am personally hardly imagine how GitHub works.
So it’s up to you bro how ti do it in the best way :slight_smile:
If I’m understanding right, you have a good idea :smiley:

#34

I don’t think really matters who will be the founder.
As good english speaking it could be you Max :smiley:

#35

I don’t have good leadership skills like you, I don’t want to be leader of a discord channel and I’m super lazy, but thanks for your nomination !

#36

All critics here trying to force their(and most popular) idea that if they set price lower - they will get more profit…
Lowering your price you probably get slight more deals, but you will receive same money. Because of cheap. Okay, lets say its even equal.
But.

  1. Effective time management.
    If your price lower and number of deals is higher, you need to visit Miners Village more often. In this wasted time you was able to kill 10-50 mobs more with your twink and get +20k or even +500k. And get exp.
    (per night you will not get even 20k 'cos it’s 40 deals of 7k)

  2. Bad example.
    Lowering price - bad example, and people that not really smart(maybe kids) will start do same. So your bad example will outplay you.

  3. Oversaturation (is this the right word? :D)
    You filling the game with roasted gems faster, so deals will faster start to fade. In total with year of playing you will get less money if you will lower your prices. Even if no one else does. Don’t fool yourself :slight_smile:

Critics made suggestion, I’ve made an experiment.

Two main ideas is:
1) People really don’t care about small price difference on shops. No point in making price lower than your neighbor
2) Why even bother and fill game with roasted gems if profit around ~20k(its 40! 7k deals) per day/night?

P.S.
About 30k once again:
Compared to others services Roast used by people i think 300 times less oflen. But lets say there are 10 times more other Servicemen than Alchemists. So actual price must be 30… okay 20 times higher than rep/buffs.
30k it’s really small price for such endgame service.

#37

And here our discord link. Later i will make some tuning there :smiley: Gtg.


Will be in top

#38

Sadly it’s impossible. People would get more profit with setting lower price than you, so they will do it.

You have no way to force them keeping the same price.

All the profits will go to player with lower price.

#39

That’s how competition works, contrary to what you guys want disguised as ‘help’ for fellow gem roasting alchemists… tada! M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y!

#40

Gonna be honest here.

I would set up for 6.1k even if i earned a million+ from raids cause its a profit and all i have to do is sit there to earn silver. Most will especially those who don’t have a maxed alt to earn from.

I would do this with every class every time because it makes silver and i am guaranteed to have the most visitors. Sure you can charge 30k but you cant stop the hundreds or thousands of people who will charge whatever they want whenever they want to. Saying you can is like saying your going to force everyone to have the same bad prices so no one ever gets anything and no one will ever do that because they want more silver.

Its a nice thought but don’t think for a second that people wont undercut you cause that’s how a business works. The trick is adapting and making it so you can charge a bit more then them and prove that you are better via advertising and such not setting a uniform price that no one will pay.

I consider myself a master trader for mmos cause i love doing it personally. Volume makes up for the low price every time.

The main point is that i will always sell for less cause i make more then your price and i will always buy for less cause then i can roast 6x more gems.

Your kind of business doesn’t exist for the person who wants more silver.

1 Like