Tree of Savior Forum

Add. Property attack

General Discussion
#15

People like to talk about damage… but it is rly not the damage what we are losing right now. We are losing a mechanism… and a class speciality with that.

Chaplain was about AAs… it was the AA Cleric class. They made an AA class into a heavy buffer/caster one.

With an exaggerated example: would you like if they would remove diev statues and add some kind of carved aoe …bombs(? :sweat_smile: )… with high damage just to “balance” the class?

I don’t see Chaplain that unique anymore if they take away the most of its AAs.

Also it is just lame that 3 skills are almost the same now… Sacrament is kinda Blessing no.2 and Last Rites is Blessing no.3

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#16

That’s a very good point. Many of TOS’s challenges stem for its uniqueness and incredibly high variance and the difficulty balancing these options. but that doesn’t mean the complexity should be abandoned. One of the most appealing aspects of TOS is how different the classes play.

Let’s hope IMC keeps up with their varied ideas, or if they have to reimplement them even. TOS can be the synthesis of variance and balance, but they must do it properly.

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#17

Someone gets it!! Woohoooo!!

I’m still hoping they move the lines of attack to chaplain instead. I sort of see this as changes to priests with respect to pardoners without thinking of how it affects chaplains at all. Maybe something along the lines of LR adding 2 (or 3) lines of attack.

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#18

You don’t need Aspersion though, because of the shop and mobs don’t hit that incredibly hard (a way to mitigate damages is better than having Asperion (Ausrine, shield, or a Pally sucking up the damages)).

Resurrection is still a must have. Revive as well because it’s just such a nice save.
To be honest if you’re full SPR I don’t think you need Mass Heal 10. SPR gives extra heals, and in harder content like ET players also use HP potions. Mass Heal 1 is 10%, it seems like enough (but I’ll test it for sure before fully changing :stuck_out_tongue: )

30% is quite a lot. For example a lot of shoppers offer 2100 Blessing. With -30% it becomes a 1470 Blessing. It’s a loss of 630 damages every time you hit. Of course, 70% doesn’t make the Pardoners’ buffs trash, but if I have the choice between paying for a buff at 70% for one hour or count on my Priest 3 full SPR friend, I’ll choose my friend any time.

The only thing I don’t like about the new Sacrament is exactly what @Ayalon said. Yeah, it’ll have much better damages. Even better than Blessing and for only 10 invested points. But that’s just what it is… a second Blessing. Pretty boring and unoriginal.

#19

One thing that I didn’t get though. Seems last rite chamged but I didn’t find a new values. Anyone knows how much holy damage last rite gives with the changes?

Also, I’ve been talking about the changes with my guildmates… I think I sacra and aspersion will be my go since aspersion increases both defense and my damage while sacra gives nearly the same damage than blessing, though ita lower thanks to the blessing enchance.

#20

So… I’m trying to figure out what everyone is talking about? Where are these rumors coming from?

Based on videos sacrament is pretty much the same.


Even Wolfy slightly confirmed the extra line is still there

#21

Hmmm… Maybe we misunderstood it then… It’s in the Cleric balance blog post btw.

“Like Sacrament, the Chaplain’s Last Rites is having its additional Holy damage removed and will instead be adding damage to Holy property attacks, which increases when your HP gets below a certain level.”

It seemed like they changed it to how Enchant Lightning works for me.

Then maybe they just meant that they removed the damage of the additional line hit but it still has the extra line?

I hope you are right :sad:

#22

I guess this has become less of a thread about additional damage and more of a thread about the developer note changes!

The combat changes in May was heavy on offense, and boosted the Blessing numbers to rather unbelievable levels. That level 50 dungeon was never the same when the new Blessing arrived.

People seem to have gotten used to the bigger numbers on Blessings now, but they will still be incredibly useful even at 70%, so the changes seem to be pretty good. You get either a long duration and slightly less potent skill, or a fully potent but short lived skill. I think that’s a great way to differentiate spell shops and actual people.

But Sacrament does become another Blessing. The additional lines of damage allows attack damage to scale in unique ways. Taking away lines of damage may make the damage numbers more compact and skill effects easier to predict, but we’re still losing an interesting play mechanic from a skill.

The Sacrament changes may enhance Heal attacks when combined with Blessing, because Blessing has a synergy to cause Heal to double strike.

Information on the “additional property damage” mechanic has always been fuzzy, but from what I understand: An attack will always have a “base” line of damage. “Additional property damage” adds a bonus to the base line of damage, and any additional lines that have the same property type. For instance, if you have Enchant Fire plus + old Sacrament + Cafrisun, you’d get 3 more lines of damage (holy, fire, and earth). Then, if you had a hat that gives “Additional Fire Property Damage 50”, the hat would provide:

+50 base line (treated as base damage type)
+0 holy line (as holy damage type)
+50 fire line (as fire damage type)
+0 earth line (as earth damage type)

Then, target defense + resistances apply to each line separately.

“New” Sacrament would remove the holy line but enhance the base line. Am I mistaken in how the multiple line mechanic works?

#23

You are close, but not quite there.

Lets use sacrament for example.
It gives:
Holy Property Attack: +[CaptionRatio]
Additional Property Damage: +[CaptionRatio2]

The “additional property damage” is the part that would turned into the extra line. The holy property attack is what would be added to all lines and skills. Essentially the property attack is akin to Blessing.

So using your example of:

Normal Physical/Magical attack base line
Sacrament line
Enchant Fire line
Cafrisun line.

Sacraments holy property would be added to all lines, Enchant Fires fire property attack would be added to all lines, and the “Additional Fire Property Damage 50” from the hat you gave as an example would be added to all lines as well.

This is why for builds that utilize auto attack multi lines such as Quarrel Shooter , Schwarzer Reiter, Chaplain, Corsair, Runecaster (Rune of Giants), and etc, all value property damage more on hats and buffs (to a certain degree).

Now the whole freaking out about multi lines on sacrament and last rites i believe is a miss-communication on IMC’s fault.

This is my deductive reasoning, so take it with a grain of salt and not as fact.

Based on the recent videos I linked up above, and what IMC communicated on the blogs is that Sacrament will no longer function similar to blessing (the holy property damage added to all lines). Instead it will focus on its strength and the reason we actually go for it, auto attack damage/extra line. It will just now be a more beefed up extra line.

This essentially allows certain priest builds to forgo getting sacrament if their ranks or party members focus more on damage from skills rather than auto-attacks.

Again I am stating: This is my deductive reasoning, so take it with a grain of salt and not as fact.

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#24

@megamanex14
that’s a very nice deductive reasoning.
Let me ask you this, the dev blog says " Sacrament, often just used as a supplement to additional property damage buffs, is saying goodbye to the downward compatibility with Blessing".
I dont understand the downward compatibility part. What do you think about this?
Thanks.

#25

To me its a way to make something that is good looks bad so they can justify the change

#26

Eh… You could be right and it is almost the exact opposite of what I thought it is.

It is maybe an AA-only skill now? wow… X)

But then… I kinda think we will actually lose some damage on both the AAs and skills too. :sweat_smile:

I hope someone will be able to confirm the changes for sure.

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#27

This could mean a few things.
Lets break it down.

  • Sacrament, often just used as a supplement to additional property damage buffs

This here could mean that:

  1. Sacrament in most cases is just used for its property attack bonus (similar to blessing), since most builds/characters/classes prioritizes skill attacks over auto attacks.
    Or
  2. Sacrament is only ever seen being used in most cases for auto attack builds.

I believe the former is much more prominent than the latter.

Now the next part of that sentence

  • is saying goodbye to the downward compatibility with Blessing"

More specifically lets focus on the “downward compatibility with Blessing” part

This could be referring to how additional property attack damage is similar to how blessing works. A.k.a. how it adds flat damage to every line (only difference being it is affected by property resistance). Hense just a lower version of blessing.

When you think of it that way and bring the sentence back together you get something like:

“Sacrament, often just used for its bonus additional property damage, is saying goodbye to its similarities to blessing.”.

Now if we say, hey mabye it could’ve been the “Sacrament is only ever seen in most cases only for auto attack builds.” part of my breakdown, then you get a problem in itself. The change would become somewhat redundant and nerf auto attack builds. Sure, skill based characters would get more damage from sacrament now, but it would still be similar to blessing.

Again this all based on the information at hand (what has been seen and read). Take this with a grain of salt. Do not treat this as fact until more can be tested and provided.

@Wolfy Can you check/test this when you go back on Ktest?

Edit: To avoid double posting

Yes and no.

In the case of skills, this would definitely be a nerf, but a very abysmal one in the grand scheme of things.

When it comes to auto-attacks it’s a different story. This is because it is all based on how many lines of damage you have in one auto-attack instance. If you only had 3 lines of damage or less, then this a direct buff. However if you had 4 or more lines this is a direct nerf.

Auto attack line dmgs that can be gained (that I know of):

Normal Attack
Aspergillum
Sacrament
Last Rites
Enchant Fire
Cafrisun Set effect

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#28

Sacra+Last Rites multi hit test. Also blessing.

And damage test on Siaulai boss

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#29

So nothing changed regarding the extra lines of damage, according to that video, right?
What about Aspergillium, is it unaffected too?

Thanks for the video anyway, one of my guildies has been on the edge since the news came up. :slight_smile:

#30

I see what they did now, your first attack doesn’t take Sacrament nor Last Rites bonus anymore also the following lines won’t be affected by other lines as well.

TL:DR

Hit 1 - Atk + Blessing
Hit 2 - Sacrament + Blessing
Hit 3 - Last Rites + Blessing

#31

Thank you!

Also nice test I clearly see everything I need to know. :smiley:

It seems it is rly the other way around that I thought it will be.

Sacrament and Last Rites are both adding extra lines but they don’t add anything to other lines and skill hits. It is actually rly good news for me…maybe not that good for others. X)

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#32

Yes so it is as I theorized. Sacrament and Last Rites are now strictly auto-attack based skills. Therefore Sacrament is no longer a necessary for certain priest builds.

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#33

No worries, i actually didnt understand what i needed to test because i dont main priest based on multihit or have get too much into any.

So i just tried to record as much as i could lol.

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#34

I see, so based on the tentative description of New Sacrament, it will add a line of damage, that’s it. In other words, it won’t give any bonuses to skill/property attacks.

For instance, Heal as an attack skill does Holy property damage; it used to take the bonus holy damage from Sacrament as part of its calculation, but now Sacrament won’t contribute to Heal damage.

Just to clarify, then; under Old Sacrament, if someone casts Fireball, am I correct in assuming that Fireball (being fire property damage) would not have received a bonus from Sacrament’s holy bonus damage? If so, then New Sacrament wouldn’t be a loss for non-holy skills.