It’s not about not getting lag.
It’s about the lag not affecting control feedback.
Fairly commonplace in many multiplayer games.
The cause (commonly) is that latency, at the time (and currently) affects your attacks in ToS.
It doesn’t need to, but it does. I would suggest changes be made so that my controls don’t feel sticky because of latency.
Now tell me how? When you attack a monster or player, they are in a position on your screen, but the info on where they trully are is stored on the server-side, thats the basic of lag input (not counting weather and equipament conditions).
Everything on the game, as far as i know, is handled by the server-side, which is adopted by many companies to avoid cheats or exploits, its not perfect but it do solve many problems related to that.
If you want fast response only single player games will hand that to you, or when you are hosting a game (not in the case of ToS) localy.
Diablo III opened a server on Brazil this year (i think, last i played was close to the release date), my latency came down from 150+ to around 50, it did nicely, but my ISP or the host where the server is sometimes are unstable and the latency goes up to 300+ (this is mostly caused by wires or bad equipament, but on Brazil’s case the weather do its share too, specialy when its raining), now to the thing i wanted to talk about, this new server allowed BR’s to have low latency but we play separated from NA players, but we can play with them and they can play with us too, just one thing change on that, if i inv someone from there, their latency will increase, since the game is being hosted on Brazil, and if im invited my latency increase since the game is hosted on NA.
Summary, theres no way to lessen control lag if the moviments are being handled by the server, there are many MMO’s out there that when you get a lag spike, you still can control your char around, but whats the point on that since you arent hitting a thing, either the monster died or you died or you got dced.
My experience on PoE is frustrating because of that, how many times i had to start all over some areas or quests because the server decided to drop my connection randomly due to packet loss or something else? I lost the count on that.
Lol! Literally, barking at the wrong tree. And that quote is quite mysterious. The thrill is killing me.
A) That’s the point. If they really think this is sufficient reasoning, then I have nothing else to add.
Many would very much prefer that the character controls are managed by the client or whatever else they can come up with.
B) Fast response = single player games only? No, that’s not true. No way is that true.
The explanation is as mentioned above, letting the client handle the character controls.
Almost every PvP multiplayer game in the world disagrees with that.
GW2’s responsiveness is also pretty rad, yo.
The connection problems are what they are and don’t exactly disappear with what we have now.
C) Prevention of cheats/exploits could be done in many more ways, without being an issue for the player.
If IMC cannot or will not do that, that’s up to them.
D) Lag spikes? If you’re getting that, then yeah, the solutions dwindle.
My problem isn’t lag spikes. It is that even with my stable ping it is fairly uncomfortable, due to how high it is.
This is one thing that will never disappear from internet, not until someone come up with some good technology, or every country renew the actual equipament they have for something more stable, which i highly doubt they will do due to the cost.
Now lets say that all the internet system on the world was working just fine, no bad equipament, wires and what not, even tho, due to the physical distance still have delay, why? The answer is, the actual method of link, the wires that are used, at least most of them, and not even taking into the equation the satellites, work on eletric pulses, its not light speed, so the distance have influence on the whole system.
Now take a look at my connection, from my home to GW2 official website:
Now, as i said on other post of mine, my latency on GW2 is generaly around 250ms, im not sure where is the physical location of the server i chose to play, West Coast or East Coast, but by the latency i get i would take its East, otherwise it would be higher latency.
Now i ask you, is there really a necessity of that route? My answer for that i got a while, but still, my ISP in particular dont invest in infrastructure, i would take many dont, my ISP is from Spain, they bought a company from this region a couple of years ago.
Im not sure, it maybe have places with even worse routing out there, not to count that, if some routes pass through China, then whoever need it is fked to no end, if it still like some years ago i mean, i heard China apply some heavy filtering on their connection, not sure if still the same tho.
By the way, i tried do a traceroute to www.creativelabs.com (im used to access like that even tho it redirect to us.creative.com) and it send my connection to Asia, maybe its where the redirection system is. Not sure tho.
@nando20xx
THanks for the read, but what does this have to do with what I’m talking about?
If you’re still lost on what I said, I’ll clarify…
I am not asking them to make latency go away or have no effect.
It’s good, responsive controls which simply means making the control feedback, at least, client-sided.
It’s something that can be made to happen, regardless of the presence of lag.
I know what you mean, but on online games no matter what kind of control they provide, if the info still need to go to the server to be validated, we will have lag response on controls, unfortunately its our techonological reality.
Just to make sure im not saying any kind of stupidity, is there any game that can do that actualy? So far from the ones i’ve played (either MMO’s or multiplayer) none provided a precise method, i cant say PoE have a good one since my latency is not good for the new Lockstep Mode, so i cant say for sure if its a good way to prevent lag or delay on controls.
@nando20xx
You do know that damage feedback and control feedback are different, right?
The idea is to NOT need to confirm the information for the controls before it happens by letting the client handle it.
This actually doesn’t need to happen with the controls…
I don’t think any of these actually sends the control information rather than something to do with the action related… but here’s a few examples of online games with solid controls.
PSO2, GunZ, S4 League, GW2(maybe, can’t recall), Vindictus (I can’t recall for this one, but should be), CS:GO, etc.
You mean the command that goes from the control to the char, yes indeed it dont need, that might be due to some code on the game, honestly using a Xbox controller felt really natural for me, but the action the char will take, for example, you have to move up, theres a coordinate you have to take, and that have to be send to the server or the other players wont see you moving. You wont notice that delay on the action taken if you are playing on Lan or you are hosting a game like in CS, i havent played GunZ in a long time, i think i played when it was released, didnt liked much the game tho but from what i remember there was some delay for me, S4 league i remember having serious problems with lag, i kept seeing others popping up all over the place, GW2 my only problem is latency, sometimes when i get a lag spike everything stop for a moment but i like the way the server recover the connection fast, never played Vindictus, i think its area restricted, and CS isnt my cup of tea.
@nando20xx
The issues you had with delay and lag in GunZ and S4 are unrelated to the control feedback.
They were client-sided.
The part about me actually moving up to other players being delayed is not what I’m interested in.
Latency will ensure my character is always ‘late’ to everyone else no matter what, what I want is that the controls don’t feel sluggish and delayed on my part.
I won’t continue trying to explain this, you’d need professional assistance. I’m not tech-savvy enough to explain how this works, all I know is that it has, can and does.
Im honestly trying to understand your point on this, i know there where in the past, some people complaining about the way the characters, specialy wizard, move after shooting the basic attack, it does have a delay on the moviment due to the model moves, that is up to IMC to change to something shorter, if thats the case for me it wasnt gamebreaking, i played for a while as a pyro and had barely problems on playing, except during some bosses with no AoE restriction (the bear-type boss aoe cover the whole area not only the telegraphs). If that is the case then like i said, its up to then if they will change that or not.
In the end, if i compare this game to Ragnarok, the movements here are much more fluid than there. In RO it feel like the char is moving on a glue-like surface, getting stuck here and there, on ToS i didnt had that feeling in any moment.
@nando20xx
It’s got little to do with movement, as movement seems to be fairly fluid on the player’s end.
If I press Z, I would like to do a timely auto-attack with the appropriate timing and see my attacks appear on queue, even if the damage shows up ‘late’.
My problem is that these happen when they don’t need to :
I will assume you are using keyb/mouse controls.
I cant be sure on this, sometimes dirty on the keyboard or some sort of defect on it (easily found on other games too IF the case) or something on the code of the game or even on the keybind config files (need confirmation).
Pretty much related to latency or due to slow model moviment of an earlier attack/skill used.
Let me know if i got this one right, You press skill 1, then press skill 2 during skill 1 execution and skill 2 triggers?
Indeed its latency issue, i myself had those on my ranger and wizard.
@nando20xx
I’m really getting tired of repeating myself.
These are not problems only I am getting.
I have confirmed that this does happen.
I also use a DS4 controller. Alternating between board and controller.
Please stop trying to analyze and return my statements for I’m just going to give this up as a lost cause.
If you are so unwilling to believe the lag, make a thread to ask others about it.
This isn’t exactly an exclusive case to me by any means.
The players who are currently also on the KR test will probably tell you the same thing.
Skill 1 triggers, ends, then skill 2 begins only after 1 ends.
You can get tired all you want, i was trying to get your point as far as to what you said for me was lag, we are on a thread about server location and the lag some people get from the distance and other related issues, now you are reporting a bug you found on the control, which you just said you and a few are having, on a thread about the server location? I was just trying to pin point what where you want to get, but since its like this, leave it be as it is and report it as a bug or w/e you think it is.
Honestly im not a pro tech guy, but at least i know some stuff, if its something you and a few others are getting i cant think of anything as a bug, then go and report it as a bug in the bug section, not on a random post at a random section.
@nando20xx
It has been reported. Quite a lot, I expect.
It’s not ‘a few’ people.
Pretty much everyone complaining about lag is aware of this issue.
This is a commonplace issue that most know about.
I am here to make a post about improving the game’s controls without having to deal with the latency.
That’s because the controls and difficulty of dodging are the two main reasons this lag is a problem at all, as far as I know. I am not here to report a bug that has been reported.
I presume you disbelieve this even existed, hence why you would assume it’s a bug report.
(also that you’ve forgotten what you originally replied to… because it looks nothing like a report…)
http://puu.sh/khc61/afe3c6f517.png
Among those 1401+319 people are people who know about this lag.
Extensively so, I expect.
Even with my level of discomfort, I am among the 1409, rather than the 319.
(link to survey results)
Thanks for trying to do something, but I think you may have directed your efforts to the wrong points.
I have never said i didnt experienced lag, now, you are pointing to something network related and not control input, unless someone from IMC come here and say it is.
What you said to me on an earlier post i throw it back at you, make one stating your issue on the gameplay and see how many have that problem, its simple as that.
I for one know that lag issues cant be a bug unless its some error on the client or server code that is causing it, if not, its something related to the network betwen my house to the server.
Now i will close this discussion with you because imho its completely irrelevant to what the OP posted.
Okay okay time for a intervention.
What i think LaScoots talking about is responsive controls not lag. So a simplified example of this is think of a look sensitivity option on a fps (which adjusts a built in delay), you can increase the response of your controls regardless of lag. I think this is kinda the idea hes getting at.
Yes, which is under the client-side code indeed, well im not sure about other controllers but like i said before, on my xbox360 controller it felt natural playing the game, no problem with response, like many, my only complain on the controller part is the lack of customization, but other than that its really good for me.
I agree i had no problem with my xbox/razer controller.
