Tree of Savior Forum

About Blindside - Appraiser

My current build is Ar2 > Sap3 > Ro > Musk2 and i plan to reset to Appraiser as the filler rank once r9 patch hits. Im using Phada x2 and yellow gems on weapon and just finished unlocking Appraiser last night for preparation.

According to this Reddit thread, Blindside does give flat crit rate - similar to how Sneak hit works. However, the skill data in tos.neet.tv shows “Min. critical chance increase” and “The effects of Blindside and the character’s critical rate apply separately” which makes me kinda confused.

So, the question is, what is the connection between Blindside’s crit rate and your own crit rate? Do you need an amount of crit rate from gear first to make use of Blindside?

They aren’t related.
Like the Reddit says, it gives you a certain % chance to crit. Basically your own crit rate already gives you a chance to crit, and Blindside gives you another one. They don’t stack. Meaning whether you have 500 crit rate or 50, your crit chance from Blindside will be the same.

Thank you for the explanation. I was confused because of the “Min. critical chance increase” line. Not anymore now.

xoxoxo

yeah it basically gives you a secondary roll to crit

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I did a quick test today to evaluate critical chance granted by blindside lvl 5 debuff. I tested killing low level monsters in order to reduce the influence of their critical resistance. Test sample was about 111 monsters for each test case.

  • Critical chance without blindside debuff: 26%
  • Critical chance with blindside debuff: 43%

If we round numbers off, blindside lvl5 debuff seems granting 15% flat critical chance.

  • Critical chance with blinside debuff = base critical chance + 15%

If we considered blindside critical chance as a separate probability event, and blindside condition taking place before base critical calculation, critical chance granted by blindside would be about 25%.

  • Critical chance with blinside debuff = 25% + 75% x base critical chance

Would have to do further testing with high critical resistance mobs to check which one of the two hypothesis is the right one.

Critical chance with blinside debuff = base critical chance + 15%

By “base crit chance” do you mean the character’s natural crit chance without gear and buff, or the crit chance with gear and buff? Because if its the latter case, it will go against the line “The effects of Blindside and the character’s critical rate apply separately”. Correct me if i dont understand this thoroughly.

Critical chance with blinside debuff = 25% + 75% x base critical chance

Why the 75% number in the formula?

Such dedication, you have my thank. Im looking forward to hearing more about this. I will advance to Appraiser anyway, but i need to know whether i should switch to Sissel and green gems, or just keep my gear as they are now.

By base critical chance I’m including critical rate from equipment and level. I have not invested into critical rate equipment, so it’s basically what you get at 330 lvl.

75% = 100% - 25%

If blindside critical approaches (25%), you get a critical hit. Else, if blindside critical condition is not met (75%), base critical condition is evaluated.

I did some further testing. Test samples are about 250 monsters for each test case. Here the results:

  • Critical chance without blindside debuff vs low critical resistance monsters: 24.7%
  • Critical chance with blindside debuff vs low critical resistance monsters: 40.0%
  • Critical chance without blindside debuff vs high critical resistance monsters: 13.2%
  • Critical chance with blindside debuff vs high critical resistance monsters: 33.2%

Hypothesis 2 is the right one. Blinside critical chance is evaluated as a separate probability event with a chance of about 21.7%. This is, when monsters are affected by blindside debuff, you get a 21.7% chance to deal a critical hit (independently of your critical rate). If blindside critical hit doesn’t approach (78.3%), you get a second chance to deal a critical hit based on your critical rate.

  • Total critical chance (crit rate + blinside) = 21.7% + 78.3% x base critical chance
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I assume you always used Blindside level 5? I read once the chance increases based on level (Could be tested with either level 1 or Divine Might -> Level 6)

First of all, please guys, start reading the skill description. It was clear from the start that Blind Side is a debuff that applies a chance on critical hits separately from your crit chance:

Use a magnifying glass to find the enemy’s blind side and attack. The attack will apply as critical attack. Foes around the attacked enemy will have higher chances of being hit by critical attacks.
(The effects of Blindside and the character’s critical rate apply separately.)

2nd, if you want to calculate the crit chance of Blindside, it would be very clever to reduce your natural crit chance to 0 by removing all critrate buffs and critrate equipment prior to the test and fight only against monsters who are at your own level or higher than you (so that their crit defence negates all of your natural critrate), best bet would be unequipping your weapons and fighting against a Saalus Boss or Mercenary Mission Boss.

And, to have some “accurate” test result, you have to test for at least 1000 attacks, normally you need a sample size of 10000 for a good average probability test.

First part was already answered by the skill description itself, there is no connection.
Second part is actually the opposite, the more critrate you have via gear, the less additional crits you can get via the Blindside debuff.

This is due to the reason that you can’t crit twice on a hit, so if your critchance makes your hit a crit and blindside debuff triggers on the same hit, it will still be a normal critical hit.
Once your critchance grows, so does inevitably the intersection of natural crits and Blindside debuff crits, making the buff become more and more unimportant.

Basically, depending on the critchance of the debuff and your critchance via equip, at a certain point going Rogue will give you a higher critchance than Appraiser, even if you only have 20-30% chance on backattacks via Werewolf cards.

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I won’t test with a 10000 hits sample. By testing with monsters that oppose very different critical resistances, I’m able to discretize the effect of natural critical chances and blindside effects. There is no need in removing base critical rate from equipment and collections. My test results are accurate enough to show critical buff is somewhere in between 18% to 25%.

I will take both of your advice into account. Thank you for spending your time and making it clear to me @Ivion and @ReportofAusterity. In every Appraiser thread people rarely mention anything in-depth about Blindside, and i think its important to know exactly how each of your skill works. Not that i didnt read the skill description, i just ask to make sure i understand it right.

how blindside works is that you press the button 3 times fast and do a boatload of damage because its the strongest r5 skill available to archers

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