Tree of Savior Forum

A first baindaid to enhancement system

Before we think about how to improve on ToS equipment enhancement system, I will like to share 2 topics which I think is important. Although they aren’t directly connected to the enhancement system itself but decisions made with them does affect how the equipment enhancement system come to be for ToS. It will help us understand why the game developers chose to introduce such systems to the game.

Balance of the game

The first topic touches on a game design aspect, the balance of the game. Here I’m not talking about balance as in PVE/PVP or how easy/hard to get a piece of equipment based on the amount of time and effort put in. It is more on the balance of economy in the game.

In the real world, items (or things) have a decay period. Most items are perishable in a sense, either through use or decay given a certain amount of time. For example knives in real life have a life span usage of months to maybe 8-10 years, depending on its usage and the number of times it visited the whetstone. People replace items every so now and then.

However, in the virtual world items don’t really disappear (unless they are specifically coded with a time limit, like event freebies for ToS). Items which are created will always be there. With the same example, a knife created in the game will never “decay”. Players can keep using it for as long as they want and trade it in markets.

This is where the problem comes in, without some way or another to remove items from the game, what will happen? Markets will be flooded with all the items that players don’t want and wish to trade off. With a forever increasing supply (since players farm) and a decreasing demand (limited by community size + usage of item, players only need 1 sword for example and wouldn’t buy another one when they have a good one equipped), the market soon will collapse.

Thus, developers need to find a way to give a lifespan to equipments (either remove them from the game or keep them contained with their owners).


Attracting the 2 types of players

This is a more touchy subject, so I’ll keep it short here. Generally for a game to survive in our world, especially one that is marketed as a Freemium game, it needs to contain elements that attract 2 kinds of fishes (players), the school of fishes (which most of us fall into) and the whales (the big spenders).

A game is a service provided by a company. The company has to answer to its investors as well as generate enough income to pay to its employees and subcontractors. Without enough revenue there wouldn’t be updates and the game service will cease.

Sadly, the income from most of us (mid and low spenders for freemium games) don’t actually provide enough for the game company. Whales do, and in most cases their spending constitutes to 70% of the games revenue. Big spenders don’t just open their wallets and pay for whatever gacha or DLC the game throws at them. The game has to fulfill some criterias before they are willing to “invest” into it.

Whales generally spend to elevate their status (in fame and power) above their peers, and thus the game needs to have ways and means for such spenders to be able to use their “real world riches” to elevate their digital avatar in order to attract such players.


With these 2 covered, it becomes relatively easy to understand why IMC made the equipment enchancement system as such, why there is a potential system in place and the reason why the Diamond Anvil exists. There was even an iteration of the game where every trade decreases the item potential by 1.

For our equipment enhancement suggestions and changes to be considered, besides fulfilling the balance of high enhanced equipment in pve/pvp environments, we have to consider the above 2 topics too.

Removing potential and capping the anvil enhancements to max +16 or +21 will solve the game balancing issues (since there is a cap it is easier to balance skills) but it doesn’t resolve the issue of it being tradable in markets nor does it attract whales to invest. Hmm…

(Need to think on what suggestion to give >< )

1 Like

Reiterating, removing the potential mechanic and retaining the backward enhancement should still be able to preserve the value of both diamond anvils and gears.

If mechanics persist it will hurt end-game items at R10. How about golden anvils? we all know how shity it is.

Something definitely needs to change. The amount of power hidden behind luck barriers is too great. After months of farming and tons of silver rerolling i finally have a solmiki weapon, but i cant use it until i get my hands on diamond anvils. It wont be better than my current weapon unless i transcend it but if do that i cant trade it around and use untradable diamond anvils. Am I going to have to be forced to buy 15 diamond anvils at 30m a pop turning my already 200m invested sword into a 650m sword? Isn’t farming 40f twice a day for two months hard enough?

3 Likes

Farming 2 months is not hard. It is too repetitive…

2 Likes

if everyone has the same weapon. the same stat. then whats the point of playing the game?

the upgrade system for tos is actually good. because its just rng.

i can clear 40f with just +11 rhs t9. so why go for those + above? its because of sense of achievement and showing off/bragging right.

golden anvil is shitty @Tanzen? u kidding me right? that thing is very valuable.

1 Like

Do you even play the game? Golden anvil’s best use is to salvage a dead item to +11 at best, +15 at most luck, it is rarely used to push +16 gears to go beyond unless you are crazy.

2 Likes

Do i even play the game? u must be kidding.

u must be very new. ppl go +17 with that from +8 at that.

and i got +9 solmiki shield now. i would be happy if it were to go +15 for the shine.

u see how valuable it is?

You knew what i meant. Nothing in this game is hard, but that’s another problem altogether. Also i was completely forgetting diamond anvils triple enhance cost. jesus christ

1 Like

and btw. for all of u guys.

Diamond anvil is better then Perfect anvil (if they come out with that).

unknown

If golden anvils were that viable and reliable, topics like this would not have existed and being discussed in the first place, now off you go with your solmiki shield and umbo blow some popolions.

5 Likes

only 6.7k? LOL.

with that 6.7k hour. what’s ur achievement in this game? tell me more about urself.

thats why its called rng. it doesnt matter normal,golden or diamond.

i wonder what server u play and what ign. must be very pro.

The enhancement system isn’t only the problem.

Basing everything on RNG has been a long term strategy to keep players playing a game but doubling or tripling the RNG involved (RNG on the item grade, RNG on the item stats, RNG on anvils) isn’t really sane.

You are talking about luck, sure you might be right if we didn’t have a lot of proofs that the majority of the high enhancement items are coming from hook64/crashing channels users. The problem is linked to what Nekorin said, most of the cheaters are also the ones paying for the bills and referred as whales. You can’t really ask a company to ban their “money-spenders”… The fault lies in their incompetence to protect their game against such cheats.

And regarding your play time, this data is irrelevant, because mostly could be imputed to necro afk farming. I have casual friends with more than 8K h that are playing in fact less time than me…

3 Likes

I suggest to put a cap to +21 or 16 and put a “safe” enchant until +8/9.
Remove potential or introduce an anvil (not only “pay to win” like Diamond Anvil) to recover it.

As I’ve said in another topic, this game should be more friendly and less hardcore.

When we farm a new weapon or armor, we put all our effort to obtain it.
A friendly game should not punish too much when we try to enhance.
Potential is a extreme punishment, is too much. People farmed a lot silvers to obtain the weapon, and they should not see their effort wasted.
Yeah, there should be a punishment system, and it’s Silver.
You will say: Golden Anvil.
Golden Anvil are really rare right now. You can’t ask to people to farm again and again to obtain an item with 0.02 % drop rate only in Hunting ground. Is insane.
A friendly game will bring more people who has a job and can’t play too much.

Right now Tree of Savior is a mix of friendly and hardcore.
Now is more friendly with new dungeon system (you can farm silver joining dungeons with all players and is less stressful).
This game is hardcore with enhancement system.
You must have a lot of silvers and farm Golden Anvl (0.02% drop rate) to reach at least +11 for doing a good dmg, and yes, I’m talking to TRASCENDENCE, not the only upgrade.

A friendly game brings a lot of people who don’t have a lot of time to play cause of the work.
“This game is amazing, I can spend money on it” friendly game
"This game isn’t amazing, I will not spend money on it" not friendly game.

We all know that who work can bring more money to Tos instead of who doesn’t work.

Grind, grind, grind and grind again is boring and people quit.

And just remember friendly ≠ easy game.

3 Likes

It has at most at 0.9% chance for consecutive success from +10 to +17. and failing gets it back to +10

math caution

+11 ~ +15 is at 51% each
+16 ~ +17 is unknown, but at most 51% each
+11 ~ +17 is at most 51% * 51% * 51% * 51% * 51% * 51% * 51%

If you managed to get yours to +17, good for you. but not everyone has that luck

broohh Lowl, , golden anvil just good till +12 then stop. enaugh for resurrect dead poten item, i dont think so ppl go +17 from it hue, once fail it will drop to +10 again, youre really luck if can reach +17 from +8 hue. but yeah, golden anvil seem have good chance to goes to +11-12, more easy than normal anvil(depen on luck too). but not beyond that .

for now, golden anvil only drop at HG, lol i can said for now hoping for golden anvil is useless.

I aggre there must be a cap to refinement, I think +15 is enough, is where the weapon starts to glow anyway.

Not relevant to the discussion bonus =):
There is a trick I use to enhance items, I play a math game with myself, even though this “trick” doesn’t actually increase the odds of succesful enhancements. I refine 2 random crappy equipment alongside the one I want to refine. Start refining both of the crappy ones, one at a time, when both fail in a row, refine your main equipment, I usually get to +11 pretty easily doing this, since it’s unlikely to fail 3 times in a row when you’re enhancing.

My best was to fail diamond anvils x5 in a row, then stopped logging or 3 weeks xD


This player failed only twice.

A system I’d prefer is that you don’t lose 1 refine anymore when failing but cost becomes x10 and they can change the diamond anvils systems.
This way it becomes the greatest silver sink ever and everybody an reach +12 +16 “reasonably”.

Difference of 8 and 11 is only 300 patk ish. +8 is already casual and you can still do casual stuff in all game content. With casual transcend like level 2-3, which part of game play that you “really” need +11 to do decent damage?

Excluding higher level solmiki and world boss, I don’t see any needs for casuals to go +11 and up at first place. The problem is when casuals try to be on same level as mid/hardcore which is not even needed in most non hardcore gameplay.

I agree with people that think the refinement system in this game is forgiving.

Having an end-game top tier weapon shouldn’t be forgiving. It’s a hardcore feature and if you want that you better think hardcore.

I don’t have one and I’m fine without one. I’m working towards a good weapon but I’ll be fine with a +10/+11 if it happens. I don’t want to have the ultimate master blaster top DPS that no-one has ever seen. If that’s your plan, be prepared to accept the consequences. One of them being the amount of money and time you’ll need to invest.

In other words. I think all this refinement loud mouthing is just that. Plain old QQing. Just leggo.

IMO any try to “quickfix” the enhancement system will hurt it more than do good.

Make it easier: “everyone” gets +16, +21. Then it would be the norm. Hurts even more new/not-so-rich players.

If it’s going to change, please make it all at once. In the past +11 was like “omg, I have a high enhanced weapon”.

-> Anviling is cheaper now: “Uh, I got only +11, let me try another weapon.”

The cycle will just keep going on and people will say “I can’t make a +16, it’s unfair, make +13 the new safe enhancement.”

5 Likes