Tree of Savior Forum

15th of Sept - kCBT3 Patch [Huge necro buff]

I agree with that. But with standardised PVP where gears won’t affect our stats, how does it work?

But why should someone who have hours to PvE have advantage in PvP? If they want to make it fair/balanced even with the new system is to add a PvP set of gear earned through PvP which most games do that prioritize stats for PvP like what GoldenCross has listed i will use WoW as a example because its one of the games i PvP’d and PvE’d the most on equally and during the first two seasons of arenas in TBC expansion people who had PvE gear had a stronger advantage yes but skill also factors into PvP

Character progression through gear can and should be earned through PvP and PvE that way you the PvE person wont feel like the PvPers are getting by without having to progress their character

This is always a age old question between PvP and PvE that every game implements or has it so your gear changes into a PvP item when entering PvP because i am sure you would feel the same way if the tables have turned for example the best weapon lets say is obtainable only in PvP and not PvE so you would feel like their character progress is halting your PvE character progress.

I love how everyone always complains about PvP but never see the other way around lol

^@nuzulspyware08 It would provide PvP defensive/offensive stats that work for PvP situations over PvE like lets use Ragnarok online cause most ppl have enjoyed that wonderful game, the Thera frog card provided demi human resistance which in general was a PvP / WoE stat which you never really used in PvE situations.

I agree with the PVE and PVP gears. But if we get PVP gears from 5v5 battle arena where we can enter with NPC gear, where will be those PVP gears used?
Example:
PVE gears can be used on PVE
PVP gears can be used on PVE
PVE and PVP gears can’t be used on PVP because it’s standardised where gears stats are the same

[quote=“nuzulspyware08, post:123, topic:40585”]
So people who work for gears can only enjoy PVE without reward on PVP?
[/quote]PvP is not PvE players playground or mini game. It’s a different game mode.
PvP don’t give advantages for PvE, and shouldn’t. But you keep saying the other way around has to be true.

[quote=“nuzulspyware08, post:123, topic:40585”]
MMORPG is a game where not only skill matter, but also character progress.
[/quote]You still have to level up your character, Rank up, plan your stat and skill points alocation, pay your attributes and all.
Being carried by +20 gear is not the way current MMO’s do, unless they want to die soon anyways.

[quote=“GoldenCross, post:124, topic:40585, full:true”]
Ok guys for the sake of settling the argument, would a system of different set of stats like this work?

Example:

PVE armor item level 220STR +15CON +15DEX +10+5 physical attack

PVP armor item level 220STR +10CON +15DEX +15+5 block penetration

so let’s say you walked into PVP wearing the PVE gear above, you won’t have the extra DEX and block penetration but you’re not gimped in PVP as well. Sounds good?
[/quote]My concern is mostly for refinment and gems. They give huge boosts, are tied to heaaaaaavy grind and have no limits.
As I said way before, if they allowed any equipment for PvP, BUT made their stats equal, I wouldn’t mind it. This would make special effects gear worth farming/crafting.
If they only normalized stats that would even solve the problem of some low level orangies with good effects being obsolete later on.

Umm, I’m hoping that if they introduce a non-standardized version of PVP in the future as an alternative to standardized PVP, something like this might work. It’s worked for other games in the past.

With this kind of alternative gear reward system, they will need to introduce non-standardized PVP somewhere along the line to accommodate for this.

So many complain about a change but what people can’t figure out is changes are still possible and things can be added. I remember having read in a file something about battleground points and Shop 1 or 2 weeks ago and I just wait to see if they’ll add it or if it’s something else.
If there is BG Points and Shop, we can suppose a pvp oriented stuff or “reward”.

What if they standardized gems and not gear? Also put in level brackets for PVP matchmaking?
Would that solve the problem?

Agreed.
PvP is Player versus Player after all. So yes, win or lose should also depend on the player not the character only.
That’s what makes PvP interesting; because it has a lot of deciding factors in winning the battle, not only because one has “higher stat”.

I don’t care about standardized PvP.
Standardized or not, those with mediocre skill & “experience” won’t live long in PvP anyway.

If PVP has to be standardised, here’s my thought of what should be standardised:
Level
Gear refinement
Gems level

Things that should be kept:
Stats points
Kind of gears and equipment set
Kind of gems

That way we can use different builds in PVP and progress gained from PVE will be kept

I remember playing a MMO a few years ago, they had the option of standardized PVP battlefields and non-standardized PVP battlefields. The battlefields were large in scale, so the effects of 1 or 2 really OP cashed up players were diluted and you still won as long as you finished the objective (eg. capture the flag, hold a point for X minutes, etc.)

After several months, the standardized version was a ghost town and the non-standardized version had queues to get in.
Yes, the non-standardized version had some people that were strong but there are ways around this, eg. stunning these OP players. It was fun because you wanted to be up there fighting with the strong ones and making a difference.

Much more satisfying than the standardized version, where everyone is running around wearing the equivalent of STR +10 INT +10 CON +10 SPR +10 DEX +10 gear. In the standardized version everyone would go around popping the cloth wearers first, then hitting the tanks last because everything is so predictable - ie. cloth wearers are guaranteed to be weak and plate wearers are guaranteed to be tough.

Yeah, that’s what I mean by variations of builds by gears and gems.
We can see full dps elementalist wearing cloth armor against tanky elementalist wearing heavy armor.
If gears refinement and gems level are so OP, then it’s fine to standardised them.

I have no link to a video footage, but you might want to take a look at this. The pics in the post shows a Thaumaturge who’d been using swell body on a player. They were involved on some kind of duel or something.

And I suggest everybody should check that guy’s post, the bug/unscripted swell body turns a player to be as big as a godzilla in Klaipeda…instead of discussing about the standardized v not-standardized pvp with same/similar arguments being repeated over and over. Oh gosh.

It’s just a visual bug, it will be fixed eventually

“It’s just a visual bug.” Embrace your life with a more cherishable approach, bro. Laugh at silly things, you’ll be happier.

And that guy who posted gave additional information (in Bahasa) about the availability of the duel/pvp 1v1, also saying that the skills (used in duel/pvp 1v1) are still in bug, not just about the visual. Plus, he lays out information that the equipment and levels are not standardized. Happy now? :grin:

still need group pvp that is not standardised

Who said people with crappy levels and gear would expect to win? That makes it sound like you don’t know know what standardized means. It doesn’t make them better.

It now sounds like you expect to win because you have a higher level and better gear. That is the worst kind of PVP for arena play possible.

[quote=“nuzulspyware08, post:120, topic:40585, full:true”]Full standardised PVP will be disadvantage to players who have good gears and bad skill.
[/quote]

Your whole argument boils down to this and it is wrong. Players with better gear won’t be at a disadvantage. They just won’t be as such a huge advantage.

I guess it would be nice for someone to get gear that is great through farming and then not need any talent to win in PVP but the current system is more fair and balanced for PVP. Which is the way arena PVP should be.

[quote=“GoldenCross, post:131, topic:40585”]
What if they standardized gems and not gear?
[/quote]You mean stats or type of gear?

I think the best case would be:

  • Make evey piece of gear from the same type and slot have the same base stats (ie. lvl 15 Plate Shoes with same stats as lvl 170 Plate Shoes, Leather/Cloth Shoes would differ)
  • Allow special effects (low lvl purples and oranges keep relevant, farming equips keeps relevant, also increase the customization of the character)
  • Set Refinment to 0
  • Set Gems equiped to lvl X (more customization, but not out of control)

Level Brackets won’t work that well here, imo, most would be completely empty. Only if they mix the current system of normalization with it so we would have only a few.
Bracket 1~200: everyone is set to 200.
Bracket 201~400: everyone is set to 400.
Bracket 401~600: everyone is set to 600.

@Pooka, not sure why you told me that…?

In current 5v5 system when two players with same level and equal skill meet, the one with better gear won’t have any advantage at all because gears don’t affect stats in any way.

[quote=“Satoru, post:143, topic:40585, full:true”]

I agree with this kind of standardisation.

And that’s a good thing. PVE gear should never dictate who the winner of an Arena match is going to be. If they want the match to be dependent on gear (Worst kind of PVP) they should make it PVP gear that is gained through PVP.