Tree of Savior Forum

15 Ideas to Make This Game GREAT + My Thoughts

I love a lot of these suggestions and wouldn’t mind if the game was changed into these.

Requirements isn’t an idea that I like. I want to have freedom to use my own build and forcing me to add CON or SPR to use a bow I might really like is a little silly.

Stats on items should be varied by 0-10 but that should only happen on items that drop from monsters. If someone is crafting the Iron Bow it should always be 78 Crit Att. I like the idea of being able to get lucky and have an item with a lot of one stat from a lucky monster drop.

You should only be able to get EXP from monsters, no Dojo. The idea of craft only characters sounds a lot like Runescape and I don’t think it’s for this game.

Awesome suggestions and organization!

1.questing story line.tell u what for new players there really dont know what to do beside MAIN quest so y so fussy about the main quest(not everyone so inteligents like u).for future i think tos will make more hidden quest cause it need time and brain to make it hidden that u r hard to know it.(and yes if u want more more u will have to wait,i see now the server lagging is because too much map and data for monster and item,thats y gm off and on the market and channel of maps,even with the chat.

2.items.+14 stat ==str=14-16 +16crit dmg/ con=1000-1200 hp/ int=14-16 magic dmg/spr=regen mp 14-16/dex=3-4 dmg+16 crit rate.is it very much??and ya u can wear resistant gear defend melee dmg gear magic dmg gear.so not every 1 is same.but if u set it with stat to wear it.u will see that all in the end is same.(class so many class how u want the stat build-fast mp regen-high defance archer-thats y if u fix it stat to wear armor or weapon.there will be gone.i feel is ok with the equitment and item tos give.u can select what u want.archer with shiled??

others i like what u post.

Please, read these ideas and opinions, a lot of players think this way.
@STAFF_J @STAFF_Shawn @STAFF_Marikim

7 Likes

the thing i mainly dislike about the quest (which is the same in most games) is the npc stand right next to the enemies you need to kill and say, ‘get some thing from this here and come back’.

i’d have a lot more fun if i was just given npc that talked to you and you had to work out what they need, find the enemies yourself. piece the story together from there responses and such. you find the enemies, you search for rocks or how to destroy the summoning circles, or whatever, then you go back when you’re done. you don’t even need to read the extra text 'cause the map tell you where to be.

even if you just had 2-3 objectives instead of 1 for each npc it’d flow more like a story. it just breaks it all up to have npc explain each little bit and stand there all day watching you work. and why do they hand around forever; can’t you hide them once the map is finished? don’t they have homes to go to.

Honestly. After playing Guild Wars 2 for so many years. Tree of Savior just feels like a huge step back in the current age of MMORPGs.

Guild Wars 2 has ruined almost all other MMOs for me at this stage because of the range of conveniences and different ways it provides rewards in doing so many different things.

This game just feels like every other top-down view game I’ve played and nothing excitingly new.

Trying so hard to like this game but I just can’t. Something or the other just urkes me. Im surprised at the state of this game for a 2015/2016 release.

I would’ve of thought developers learn the good and the bad and try and pull it all together to produce something better.

Anyhow. I agree with all your suggestions.

First of all, let’s face it: they will not change the core structure of the game. The game is already in the later stages of development (with a rumor of the kOBT starting at the end of the year), and i doubt they will do like Square Enix did revamping FFXIV. So the final product of this game will be not much different from what we have now. (The max they will do is to tweak some numbers and some minor change here and there).

Anyway, beliving in that doesn’t prevents us to give opinions and suggestions. Anyway, i will mention RO for some comparison, but that just to make the idea more clear, i’m not one of those who want ToS to become RO2

The linear progression:
The main issue here is this “doing errands” quest structure. The quests doesn’t really feel like a quest, (talking to a NPC and killing 10 monsters just on his side or just talking with a NPC are not a quest for me).

A quest, for me is something like we have on RO, such some of the class change quest (finding NPCs on several spots of the world, doing things more than just killing X monsters on the side of NPC, such as Assassin quest where you had to answer a quiz, do some tests such as killing the right monsters, and even passing through an invisible labirynth! or the Kyel Hyre or Bio Labs quests).

All those quest indicators also makes quest far boring. The NPC says “search someone on map X” and when you go to map X, the NPC is marked on the map. They should just say what you have to do, but not simply indicate on the map each step of the quest progress. The quests are basically “follow the dots on the map”.

The quest should follow “arcs” and what you do between the star and end of each arc is up to you,
For example:
Arc 1 - Meet with the Knight Capitain in Klaipedia

  • What you do between that is up to you, we could have all those “do an errand” on the maps for people to do, but it’s up to them.
  • The arc end should end with a major boss fight (so if people just skiped everything would probably lose, the knight capitain testing you could be cool)

Arc 2 - Revelation at Crystal Mines.

  • Save the Alchemist Master
  • Make all the boiler fixing a single huge quest.
  • Save the villagers on the mines.
  • Major boss fight against Mirtis to get the revelation.
    Other errands all optional

Arc 3 - Revelation at Tenet Chapel.

  • Meet the Paladin Master
  • Go to Tenet Chapel
  • Major boss fight against Gesti on the altar.
    Other errands all optional

And so the story goes on. People aren’t locked on the same line of errands, although all must pass through the same major events of the story. People can simply grind to pass through the main challenges or can do the errands to level up (this would require a better balance of the EXP of grinding vs. questing, since as it is questing simply give more EXP)


Item:
This system of items with tiers is simply bad. While i undestand that some items should have level requirements based on their levels, the items should be more “free”.

Also, the flat addition nature of the game makes some items that have extra effects useless on the later stages.
For example the Iron Bow you mentioned. It is a very good weapon, but you know that EVERY single lvl 70 bow will be better simply because their raw damage is higher. For example, if the Crit damage from iron bow was % based, He could be desireable for Critical Focused builds even when there are other weapons with more raw attack. Also they should avoid those items packed with several bonus at same time. For example, Vubbe Figher Gautlet have a huge +10 STR bonus AND +2 AoE. If those bonus were on different items, people would choose between them according to their needs.

On this point RO had also a good solution making weaker items more personalizable (most 4 slot items were weaker, while more powerful items had less/no slots). On ToS, the Gemstone system is just used to make strong weapons more strong. The gem system need to be expanded, the monsters gem only increasing skill level is quite boring.

Also, the fact that weapon attack have too much weight on the character overall damage makes that you can’t simply use an weaker weapon with a custom effect, instead of just using an weapon with very high attack power, the same with armor and accessories.


How to Level Up: Combat & the Grinding problem.
While some alternative means for leveling is good, they must be very careful with it, because this can be easily abusable if too easy, or useless if too hard.

The point about monsters, is not about making them though, but making them not generic. Monster are basically HP, def and atk. Most of them have nothing in special. They just attack over and over until die. Again on RO, we had different monster for different people. We had tad slow monster, ideal for archers, undeads that took damage from healing for healers, High evasion/def with low mdef for wizards, high hit/aspd low base damage for tankers. Low hit high damage for evasive characters. A lot of monsters were more than just hp, atk and def.
Also, before the renewal, there was a true reward for killing stronger monster, so it was not a waste to make a party and go on maps of higher level. (Killin Abysmal Knights at the begin was a worth challenge or low level wizards killing Argiope with fire wall + fire bolt).

Talking about challenge, this is something totally absent from ToS. The bosses are simple (talking about them later) and normal mobs from your level range are laughable. Since there is no reward in going to higher level areas, you just stick on the areas of your level and all you can do is a stream of slow grinding. There should be some high risk/high rewards, such as killing mobs from higher levels welding more exp (but for that the monsters need to be less dumb as they are now)

Also make resistances more relevant. The whole Cloth > Leather > Plate thing seems cool, but makes little difference and elemental resistance are near to non-existant. I just use my strongest weapon no matter the enemy i face, because the reduction provided by incompatible type is not that big.(it seems to be 25% only). If it was bigger (50% - 75%) people would need to think before smashing anything on their front.(switching weapon would be really necessary, and elemental damage more relevant)


Things I also would like to add:

Bosses
The bosses really needs to be different. You can kill every single boss with the same strategy, just circle them and attack while they’re using their attack. They all have exactly the same attack pattern and behavior with the only difference being the AoE of the said attacks. The bosses needs to fell more unique, with different action patterns and behaviors.
All bosses are just huge monsters that follow your character, and when in range, use a skill with a very long animation (that gives you time to leave the AoE) and repeat this process over and over.
There are many ways to make bosses few different and interesting, as the bosses are now, they are just the same, they are exiting at the begin, but when you have fought 20-30 bosses, it’s become very boring.


Classes:
The problem with the classes are all the math involved within the game mechanics.
They just make that no matter what gimmick your class have, it will no be better than just smash everything with a two handed sword.
We have sappers with traps, peltasta with his tanking and provoking skills, clerics and priests with their healing and support… this all is cute but is never as efficient like just getting a highlander or berserker and smash everything.
Also they made the classes in a way that their attacks gets outclassed by higher rank classes, so this make build the class far less interesting, you will end just choosing the classes with better support skills and skip the rest until you get the high rank class of your choice.

9 Likes

Perfect ideas here, congratulations to all!
I have some too, but I don’t speak english very well… A shame…
But that’s definitively one of the most (if not the most) constructive thread right now.
Sadly, like Victor said, the game is almost on OBT state in Korea and for me the biggest mistake that the developers did was to make the game too big from the get go and not trying to get our point of view earlier (Alpha state).
I didn’t played RO from the beginning but i remember that i had like 4 different areas to explore or kill the same level monster, but they where very different from each other and they loot where different too, that made me WANT to go to that area and explore it, not just ignore it.
I will try to write something simple and post here again… Maybe it will be nice to hear from the GMs or even one of the developers what they will do with all these good ideas.
Really hope the game changes for the better, it would be a shame if the game closes to quickly…

I agree with everything. I wish I can like this post 100x
I’d like to add this.
Make a challenging large raid dungeon where more than 20 players can participate. This kind of dungeon will encourage players to play with everyone. And of course the bosses should be strong enough to wipe us. This kind of dungeon will make us think of a strategy on how to finish it rather than mindlessly spamming our skills. and the reset should be once a week. this is only my idea…its ok if you’re not going to agree with me sry for my bad english

I think the core of game-play is likely there, but base on what developers can do without tweak so much, here are my 2 cents:

  1. Eliminate Circle2, Circle3 by Job Advancement, Instead make it auto advance. For example, Wizard->Pyro->Linker, at rank 3, I’m a Wizard C3, Pyro C2, and Linker C1, the 15 skill points is what we should consider how to distribute among these 3 classes. This will allow more builds with cross-classes skill customization in same rank without have to remake so many characters, and more customs to wear! This make much more senses for the core design of the game.
    *If peoples made mistakes, it probably minor impact with just buy skil reset scroll, with current meta, players have to remake and go all the tough ways!

  2. Return the /gg emoticons in RO and make the emotions/actions more alive, with effect and face expression.

  3. More character customization, skin color / hair color.

  4. Random super boss or event on open map to unite peoples occasionally, this is what I like D3 elites /GW2 random event, you never expect whats coming during a journey. This make more funs. When solved them, we will earn token which we can exchange equipment. Random super boss should make peoples kiss floor with no mercy, like Darklord.

  5. Player basic profile, this is what I think current MMORPG is lacking. You right click a players, and you can hv “view profile” option to know the gender, country and age (optional), it make sense for honestly, faster forming a friendship instead of so many guesses and doubts.
    I remember RO old golden times, we used to ask A/S/L and 90% and female characters are indeed played by female players, this is what actually balance the environment of the game.

  6. Boss difficulty, i think quest bosses are fine, it shouldn’t become a reason to stuck below average players, but Main Quest, Dungeon should be more tricky and challenge.

  7. Dungeon difficulty, 50->Easy mode, 60->Moderate mode, 70->Difficult mode. Well, it is a cheap design indeed, but still it is better way for peoples to level up in party than squeezing/ksing in open map. At the same time, i hope more different dungeon in different level, 50,60,70,80 etc.

  8. Crafting, 100% map exploration, achievement, to provide more exp.

I’m software engineering myself, and I’m understand coding reuseability, maintainability, and sustainability. Hence, making more useless maps like RO is not optimize way. Instead, making more contents on what has developed, eg: each map add random events to give more exp.

1 Like

Maybe it’s only me but if they can still change things I suggest.

  1. Adopt the rebirth system (level reset) similar with RO after 6th rank. Max level around 150. You need to rebirth/reset to take 7th rank. After reset you will be back to level 1 but will have few extra stat points maybe around 50. You need to level up again to 100 while going to next rank. Exp table is also a little higher.

For me the 600 level although not yet implemented is ridiculous even for mix questing and grinding and will be harder to balance later in a lot of area. If you end up wanting to remake a character catching up will take tons of time not to mention the currently very very boring linear system. Also with the current system we tend to visit each map for a day or less then forget about it. If they will implement a rebirth system balancing the game will be way easier to balance, equipment will have better use and it will be easy to recycle those maps for players and since they have to rescale the current map design to distribute it to 150 levels there will be more monsters to choose from to grind. Though 99% chance they won’t do I believe it’s way better than the current system where the dev thinks that forever PVM grinding is fun. Ofcourse they can implement a few map that only rebirth player can visit for questing same with few equipments that only rank 7 can use.

  1. Improve the Bosses and add actual strategies on killing it where some classes skill can be utilized well. Why the heck is this game adopting the new generation of game system against bosses of simple hit evade hit evade system, I don’t know if you are even doing any strategy in killing bosses, in some classes the only difficulty is getting boss hp down because the def and HP is too high for them, other than that it’s plain boring. Making the boss have high HP or defense do not make the boss killing challenging at all. I am not saying make every bosses but at least some bosses in side quest.

Reset system are one of the worst design decisions ever made. This add little to the gameplay other than a very boring “re up”, wich in case of ToS would be horrendous, since ToS don’t have any incentive to go beyond maps of your level. So you are stronger, but you will still going though the same map (and now without the story quests to help the advancement). Leave this crap system to MU Online please.

1 Like

This is stupid.The reason why RO has a rebirth is because of lack of content. They made it so people could grind again in the same areas that you’ve been before.

On topic:
Your ideas are great but the game has been made already and i doubt that they would make huge changes because of a topic in the forunms.

1 Like

I agree with most of the opinions that OP posted here.
Especially on how monsters should be tougher and worth more exp each monster.
There is a lack of community interaction in the game.
I think it would be good if the game force players to interact with one another.
Perhaps monsters which players constantly face should be always 20 to 30 levels higher than players so that players actually have to come together as a party to defeat them. DPS, tank, healer or buff support roles will become more defined instead. Right now, I am not seeing much of such roles at the moment. Most players are just aiming for good DPS or AOE to level up.

Fighting tough monsters can be a steep learning curve for new players and this can be reduced with helpful tutorials and help from the community.
Looking at how this game is being designed, it is more suited to players who enjoy grinding little by little, day by day.Old school RPG grind style. If that’s the direction this game is going, I am probably staying away.

Gotta disagree on the 2 points at the beginning:

  1. Make the main storyline very high level.
    Making a high level story requires a good writer which equates to royalty. Translating it into all the languages you want without losing it’s flavor is a ton of work. As it is the English in the game is acceptable for me because I know it is a grind quest.
  2. Make the main story more of a ‘mystery’
    Mystery always = hard. All mystery and easter eggs perish in the face of google and youtube. Just like students referring to the answer page at the back of the workbook.

I agree with most of the points on each wall of text in this forum. Here are my opinions regarding the game:

  1. The skills: As far as I know, the skills in this game are flat damage skills. None of them are %stat based. I really dislike how you have to buy attributes to add 1% more damage on your skills. I think all the skills should have a lower base damage but with a reasonable amount of %stat. This limits the stat builds of classes since there is no real advantage in getting more base damage as it doesn’t reflect on any of your attacks. My archers and mages are full SPR, even my WARRIOR is building mostly SPR. That being said, the attributes system needs to be reworked. I fully support the OPs idea of having different attributes that gives different upgrades to the skill. (Only have a certain number of “attribute” points so that you can’t infinitely upgrade your skills.)

  2. The bosses: I really hate the bosses in this game, you don’t feel like you’ve beaten a boss after you kill one, especially those bosses that don’t move. As someone said above, the bosses are really easy and takes almost no effort to kill. I almost fell asleep trying to kill a stationary boss at level 70. I had to suicide myself to keep myself awake. That aside, each boss should be unique. However, with the current questing system, that’ll be quite hard to implement so I suggest that there only be a mid and end boss in each area or quest line.

  3. The quests: I like what the OP said, but I strongly encourage there be a frequent stream of quests until around level 50. This way, new players won’t be deterred by not having anything to do early in the game. That being said, the way that the quests should be implemented is that they get fewer and fewer quests as they level, and by the time they get to level 50, there wouldn’t be any “main” quests. This should encourage the players to start exploring the world. victor_sants’ idea of there being arcs is a really good idea too, with that idea the point below would benefit a lot as they can just be put in at the end of an arc. It’d be like going through a series of quests to get to the boss, and when you do, you have to go through the boss dungeon and beat the boss to conclude that arc.

  4. Community interaction: As the OP said, there really isn’t any benefit in partying with others as you progress through the game as you can solo to high levels. This can be fixed by implementing dungeons/raids/party quests/etc… These should be interesting, challenging and rewarding, making players want to complete them. These should be scattered throughout the game and at various levels such that players can do them at whichever level. Now, I’m not too big a fan of running around the world to discover a few new things, so I think we can sacrifice a few maps to make these dungeons, or they can be created using the “dead space” in maps. In terms of the content in the dungeons, they should be specific to an area. I’m going to refer to Blade and Soul as an example; in BnS, there were dungeons at certain levels that you could do to farm equips. In BnS, dungeons were the only thing that you could do to get a decent weapon, but they were challenging to do and involved a lot of coordination from the party members, an area where this game lacks greatly. The monsters in those dungeons were unique and each had a theme. As you progressed through the dungeon, you’d meet bosses which were challenging and at the final boss, it’d be impossible to solo (unless you were funded, but that’s not the point). I feel like the implementation of dungeons at different areas would greatly increase player interaction and motivation to explore different areas.

  5. Character Customization: Pretty simple, need more variety. Hair color, eye color, face design, etc… Everyone looks the same.

  6. Items: Item stats need to vary if they’re dropped from monsters. I support victor_sant in saying that item tiers in this game are a bad idea and OP saying that item levels are limited. Each area or dungeon should drop different items each with different stats. Items crafted from recipes should all have the same stats.

I know my ideas aren’t consistent with each other, but that’s because I don’t expect the staff to implement drastic change.

3 Likes

I like your idea, how about, exp from supporting others, exp bonus of partying?

  • EXP from supporting other came from the time I run my private RO and I found it really interesting if we don’t want support class like MOBA support heroes. This also encourage people to go more into support intensive and also encourage team play.
  • Partying bonus, this should help people to interact with each other. That’s should be thing MMO after.

As I’m MMO guys who focus more on economy than game itself, I’d like to add more thing on crafting:

  • I think crafting weapon should be class specific role like RO’s Blacksmith or Alchemist. This will encourage economy and create value along with its supply chain.
  • The component could be rare and hard-acquired, but not all of them. There should always be the low level component in large quantity. This will distribute income for those in low level. It’s also work really well with prior suggestion.
  • Special Potion crafting - like RO’s Alchemist.
  • Optional ingredients - why we need to stick with the recipe? Recipe should accounted for the ‘main ingredient’ like you will need egg in order to make omelet. The optional ingredients are like spices. These ingredient/component will have distinctive effect on finished item. And there’s no need to think of each one specifically, you can assign item table with kind of number and use a some equation to determine the type of result and how much increase/decrease.
    This will encourage support class, economic activity, Value Added along supply chain and people could come up with specific secret recipe they research for their business!

Hope you guys, especially, IMC, read through.

I got to notice that every game that allows the user to create and customize alot by themself, like building things, creating items, creating scenarios, creating dungeons to be visited by other players or whatever are highly long lasting and popular.

Compared to these, we have to play with a handfull of characters who only can change the limited hair color by doing quests (Cash-shop element later) and the item crafting system which seems to be at least a bit promising.

Its 2015. The web2.0 is running fine for a long time now - so why not leave some creativity to the users by giving them an interface to create things the developers never came up with? Or is this way of thinking a NO-NO for korean developers? Fearing some idiot may abuse that? Just want to go the save route, suited for the korean market?

…meh.

“Making things more interesting” isnt as hard to achieve for a publisher as you might think at first. Lets just add a human controlled Antagonist-player, stroving through the worlds doing some mischief to annoy some players. Even if it sounds silly, wouldnt a well chosen player by imc willing to do that even for free? Playing bowser to whipe some afk players, running around texting some mysterious stuff, without announcement, causing the community to gossip about - spawning minions randomly with nice drops etc.

Its just a random thought and needs some trust but it would make boring grinding really interesting.

There is one thing to consider: they develop their games for the Korean audience, other audience are just a bonus. And judging by the huge stream of those korean generic games with this “do an errand” quest structure, people there probably like this, so they will not change that.

I just accepted the fact that i’m not part of the target audience for this game. And since the game is going to Open Beta, they will not mess with the core of the game. And for me it doesn’t matter how much content they add later when the core is so generic like this.

It’s sad to see a game with so many creative and interesting concepts, ended as another generic and bland Korean MMORPG.

1 Like

Thanks for all of your inputs, I will forward them to our Dev team :smile:

5 Likes

i agree with everything in the OP especially with the item and monster density/ overall lack of monsters that drop items or item diversity that is.
at 200 we´ve max petamion , cicel bracelet (which is bugged and not working properly) , gladiator band rapid bangle - thats what most people wear who are fortunate enough to have found or bought a gladiator band for example.
everyone has the same 1hs and memedaggers , same 2h swords or trying to get aston2hsword/Nulis.
everyone wears Roxona , everyone has 5star critgems wether rate or critdmg in em (few exceptions)
everyone tries to pull mobs together and nuke them.
there aren´t nearly enough different items for different builds - here is dex on it crit hprec or whatever.
another issue is only a selective ammount of mobs , drop desirable items (rapid bangle recipe of which all the mobs are scattered and you need to run around glade hillroad all day) , field bosses having a very low chance at what you want / need (not saying you should be one and done but the fact they are almost MANDATORY makes me not want to farm them and turn it into a chore) make the fieldbosses OPTIONAL - give em great loot , lots of different loot not just 3-4items and a mat for rare recipe …

why is there only 1-2 weapons per lvl120-170 for each class tiered from worst to best ? i think IMC can do a lot more there.
if you want to keep people interested post CBT in OBT you absolutely must add LOTS OF MORE ITEMS - i dont speak for anyone but myself - i play games like these for the LEWTZ right now my insatiable lust for items is rather sated because there isn´t much to get.
let us buy for example “treasure chests for a mil or 500k daily” that can have blue to purple loot and orange recipes but always getting your money worth so grinding silver can be sunk into casinochests.
let us go into lvling-maps where nonstop mobwaves approach us until we die once and reset (sort of gauntletmode like in vindictus or devilmaycry)
make gems drop more from different mobs not just "go grind demonprison for green and yellow gems , or roxona agency for red and magetower for blues)
increase the droprate of materials from 5% to 10% ive had 12-15 lumai 2h sword recipes but only 20moya fragments. ( not complaining )

formatting isn´t and was never my strength.
the grind would be okay with way more features , items and places to grind being added.
right now its a railroadgrinder with a set path and set itemization akin to communist society.