Tree of Savior Forum

Ye olde Barb vs High > Doppel3

Class and Rank Swordsman
#4

Level an archer instead and wait on the th sword user till after there is an option for them to have % crit or for the game designers to change the crit rate formula. Or level a spear user with hop3.

Look at it this way. Are late game monsters like tanks, yes they have high hp, resistance and crit resistance. What have other games like league of legends done with the math on how to optimize a ad carry items to kill tanks? Just stacking physical attack isn’t enough, even if you auto for 3000-4000 when there are several couple-hundred thousand hp monsters aggroed to you.

Of course this is a team game so the burden should be split up. However there are issues with low player population resulting from various other issues.

#5

What? This is a barb v HL thread, not a dex vs str thread.

#6

If you want to invest dex in your swordsman, consider that the highest crit resist currently in this game is 206. this is no theory, the monster IS in the game right now
Now throw it in the formula, you will find how much crit rate you need.

And go barb, it will support the damage of your doppel skills better.

Although i would say, take a circle in highlancer for catar stroke strike damage.

Oh and sorry about the 206, i couldnt resist it.

#7

Seems like barb is the better way to go seeing how it increases doppel damage by a lot.

Do you have the formula for crit chance?

#8

Skull Swing> War Cry
Crown 5+ should be usefull too on higher maps!

#9

It is available here:

#10

it depends on your playstyle though
some people would rather have tons of skills to spam, some people would rather scale their high lvl skills
if you ask me? i’d rather scale my rank 7+ skills, since rank 8 is a big ■■■■ you to anyone who relied on his rank 2-5 skils for damage.
Again i’m not saying that highlander 3 is bad, highlander 3 is pretty awesome, and skyliner seem to be capable of executing tons of damage, for my playstyle barb 3 is better.
I had my fair share of relying on rank 2-5 skills for end game content.

#11

Highlander pros +++

  • Highlander gains from heavy STR because Crown’s INT decrease scales with it.
  • Cross Guard also scales directly with STR.
  • Skull Swing is futureproof in that it will always reduce armor to 0.
  • Skyliner is a 2x hit with 200% to targets that bleed, making it very good.
  • You can still gain Cleave’s 50% slash if you go Highlander C3 by investing one circle into Barbarian
  • 50% critical attack bonus to 2H swords as attribute with just one circle

Highlander cons —

  • Most hits have very small range, except Cartar Strike
  • Cartar Strike past level 3 still takes too long to charge imo
  • Skull Swing is a 50 second cooldown, making it a boss / miniboss skill
  • Many targets cannot be bled, which leads to Skyliner being just a 2x hit
  • Skull Swing is pointless in WB as it increases your rivals physical damage too
  • Cross Guard eats up your SP and sometimes doesn’t block at all (been bugged since closed beta)
  • You have to be high STR to really utilize Crown and Cross Guard, or they are useless
  • Skyliner spamming requires low ping to execute fast
  • Moulinet is a weak and slow 5 hit skill
  • Cross Guards pierce debuff is pointless on you

Barbarian pros +++

  • Frenzy scales well with Deeds of Valor
  • Warcry scales well with Deeds of Valor
  • Cleave is a big hitter on stunned enemies
  • Cleave is very low cooldown and amazing at applying slash debuff
  • Two stun abilities
  • Pouncing is an amazing source of damage against groups and bosses
  • You aren’t reliant on STR to make your abilities scale, opening up a DEX build
  • Seism has a lot of free AoE attack to it
  • Warcry now scales with monster levels
  • Barbarian compliment Doppel fantastically

Barbarian cons —

  • Warcry now scales with monster levels, so you better hope there’s no lvl 1 boss totems or stamina trees around
  • Seism is a fake multihit
  • Can’t stun bosses so Cleave will never hit bosses hard
  • Giant Swing is still buggy and useless except maybe in PvP
  • Giant Swing collisions hardly ever happen due to how monster agro works
  • Giant Swing can be jumped with, and is weak
  • Stomping Kick forces you to jump and is slow and pointless
  • Helm Chopper is weak even if max leveled
  • Seism is weak even if max leveled and scales terribly (fake multihit, 170% attack though still)
  • Warcry needs 10 targets for maximum potential and past 280 10 enemies means instant death
  • Warcry is still too high of a cooldown because the attribute adds 10 seconds to it (opinion)
  • Frenzy is weak because you need to normal attack and no one does this past level 200
  • Frenzy attribute is mandatory for most cases in the game, cutting it’s buff damage by -50%
  • Embowel is pointless and weak
  • Seism now has a weak range, used to be bigger (nerfed?)
  • Monsters can resist Warcry
  • Monsters can resist stuns
  • Pouncing has 0 AoE attack added to it, relying entirely on gear for AoE

I’ve leveled a Highlander to Doppel in the current state of game. I leveled a Barbarian to Doppel in iCBT2. Currently I’m making a new Barbarian Doppel to meet the new meta demands and changes.

3 Likes
#12

^ pretty much covered on top.

TL;DR ver.

Highlander has higher burst rotation. (skills might get obsolete by r10)
barb have better damage over time. (due to new improve frenzy + warcry)

Either way you will need barb one or cleave = 50% damage missing.

Crit rate wise if you attain 85% crit it’s good enough 767 is 100% on non crit resist targets ( 900 is 100% crit on 130 crit resist)

#13

100% crit in current cap against 0 crit resit is 785-786 crit rate.
You need 991-992 to crit against everyone in pve.

#14

hmmm 767(98%) is actually high enough well. 785 is 100% crit though.

i dont’ think you need so much crit. It’s over dose i guess unless theres a 200 crit resist mob.

#15

But there is a monster with crit resist above 200. It is 206 to be more accurate.

https://tos.neet.tv/npcs/58483

But i think you are right, get crit rate for the sake of one monster is not optmal.

#16

kinda true too much crit will make you negate damage.

since this can be cover with quicken or monstrance scroll if really needed =X Especially looking at the new gem updates… they are scary.

#17

it’s the default warcry + the new scaling.

Example, you would end up getting 600+ PA with 10 targets on level 300+ monsters.

with stamina trees + 10 targets, you would end up getting 300+ still, so it’s definitely better than the old one.

#18

Thanks a bunch! Appreciate it for teaking the time and effort to help people (and me) out.

Would you say Frenzy is not useful for r8+? If so, where would I allocate the points?

How has frenzy improved?

#19

they gave it some str scaling, I forgot the formula but my barb doppel gets 25 per charge

#20

So if I go mostly dex con with some str, it would not be that great to get frenzy? And as @celgaming said, you don’t really auto attack at higher circles right?

#21

Yeah you rarely auto attack when you get to higher levels, but on R7, there’s still very small room for auto attacks enough to charge frenzy.

R8, I don’t really see it.

#22

Any recommendations on what I’d use the 10 points on?

#23

I’ll still go with frenzy, there isn’t really anything better + sometimes it’s actually better to charge it than using seism (on bosses, for example)

seism’s main use is for stunning, helm chopper damage is really bad later on specially against leather you probably won’t use it.

maybe something like this