I wonder why people don’t use this build. its provides both utility and dps. good for party play with cc and still have decent dps too. also seems good for solo play too with cc to set up your pyro spells in combination with your icy spells 
please comment your opinion
Pyro is really bad after level 200, so probably that is the main reason.
the main reason is Pyro fireball can be knock around by malee atk.
if you can find a class or a party combination that can ensure fireball stay in place then it is viable after 200.
another reason is that Fireball has really small effective area. you will have to get into close range to cast fireball which is pretty risky.
** you can also cast it outside and knock them in with off hand atk but it take too much time. flame > fireball > fireball > off-hand atk will take more than 5 sec of animation lock. -*-
the mob will mostly die from frost cloud by then ;S
pyro have more skill than just fireball though but i guess i kinda see that pyro is bad a bit since most of its skill is ground targeted so if the mobs just move from it then it would be kinda useless if someone from your party pulls aggro and the mob runs towards them. maybe wait until he has the mobs around him then use yoru skills? xD idk it seemed like a decent idea. and if pyro is viable up to lv 200 ish, what makes it bad 200+?
Except for Fire Ball, the damage of any other skill is pretty low and since fire ball is not a reliable option since it can be pushed you will have a character with no damage. Fire Pillar have a nice dps but bosses move away from it most of time so it is useless, normal mobs get stucked on it so it is not so bad but the cd is too high and damage is quit low at high level (even before 200). Hell Breath is an awfull skill, damage is pretty low and it needs to be channeled. Flame Ground is nice at the beggining but damage is quit low for end game. Fire Wall suck since the beggining and Enchant Fire is quit usefull for autoattackers. Pyro3 226, so I know it by 1st hand.
that helps a lot lirash xD I been debating to really make one or not and your experience there made my decision for me xD
I have the build myself and really like it ALOT, to the point i completely ditched my elemental, it syncs extremely well. I rerolled from wiz3/ele3/wl1 and like this build far far more then that.
So much cc, ground and air dmg. Its hellish fun and good.
No its not, only 2 fire balls will do more dmg on a single target then whole frost cloud lol. and it also hits flying monsters with that, in combination with snow rolling ball, its simple amazing.
That’s why you got cryo.
Snow rolling ball = lvl 5
Fire balls = lvl 10 ( rank 2 )
snowball + fire balls, normal buffs, no weapon buff + ignition rod
“snowball + fire balls, normal buffs, no weapon buff + igntion rod”
lvl 15 fire balls = 50% more dmg through 15 hits instead of 10 and 50% more base dmg that’s 100% more dmg in total. ( also weapon dmg buff is also available with that) .
Snow ball is extremely strong, they can’t knock your fire balls back anymore, 8 seconds aoe cc with that, loads of burns going off. Every cryo at the truffle area that i feed fire balls into his snowball, starts to love every second of it. If you want a bigger aoe with a stronger snowball that stays longer audri staff is a good fit for that.
Now if you really want to go all out dmg wise, you can easily push even more fire balls into it. But keep in mind that this is without any other pyro skill.
My level 6 fire wall, level 3 flame ground + lvl 5 fire pillar do already enough dmg to kill a 86k hp truffle without issue’s. So if you push those skills anywhere to max level, and combine it with that the dmg is going to be insane.
People that say pyro is crap clearly never played it. or mixed it with a worthless class.
Not to forget that the next update is going to bring a hell lot more dmg towards the mix, as hell breath gives 50% fire debuff which will give another 50% dmg increase most likely or atleast some. So a good combo would be
- throw 2 fire balls on the ground
- fire pillar + fire ground + firewall
- hell breath for 1 sec
- fire balls + snowball
= rip. Ofcourse that’s your full combo. But i never had the feeling i was empty cooldown wise, specially as fire balls cooldowns are extremely fast and the burst of it is really high.
The biggest issue pyro has are
- fire balls get blown away by team mates ( snow ball fixes this big time )
- i can’t get monsters effectively into fire pillar or in my aoe, specially ranged are a issue = ice pillar ( ice tree ) fixes this.
- no defense against ranged monsters ( cryo fixes this big time )
Cryo fixes this all.
Then you also got ice wall, something that is really handy to lock bosses in a corner for a while so your damage can easily tick without issue’s. But not like you got issue’s with those map bosses anyway they are extremely easy to kill.
Ice pillar is just amazing, soak up the whole screen into a pile so you can fire pillar + snow roll it with fireballs without issue. Loads of time to setup yoru dmg this way. Cooldown is also rather short.
Ice pike = raelly good for fire resist monsters, does actually a lot of dmg and the freezes are just great
ice bolt = perm freeze
That ice shield forgot its name = 60% chance to freeze a archer that hits you, so good.
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YOU SIR! HAVE JUST CHANGED MY MIND ONCE AGAIN! xD I will make one now too xD seee! i knew it sounded like a good idea! xD like pyro has its own short comigns but thats why i wanted to pair it with cyro for xD and all the evidence kept piling up agianst pyro i forgot about the cyro pairing 
i will make one after all 
i kinda didnt want to go with the usual wiz3>ele3>WL xD
i will have to make a char from scratch again though xD but i feel its better now than later
i played wiz3/ele3/wl1 and i found it really dissapointing. what people don’t tell you is that your dmg is really specific.
Sleep is your only cc and only defense because of it ( the warlock shield really isn’t working well as defense solution )
Sleep doesn’t work on flying monsters at all. stealth edit
any flying type is not ccable by sleep, your frost cloud doesn’t hit flying monsters, so meteor isn’t going to work very well on flying elites as they will hit you for loads of dmg before you can actually one shot them which is terrible. So the only thing that is left is magical missles which does decent dmg but not going to make a dent on most elites, and electrocute which costs time to cast + doesn’t always do a lot of dmg as bounces are cmopletely random.
The only skill that you really got left is hail, but that thing only hits well for bosses and isn’t a relayable source of dmg at all. WL pole of agony is a long cooldown with such a small range ( no internal root, that it makes the whole experience a pain to use, i never use it outside of boss fights ).
I got killed by archer types so much ( as 180+ archers become far more noticable specially elites ones ) that i wanted to reroll cryo, but the issue with cryo is the dmg is really low, sot hat’s why i bolted pyro with it just to boost it’s dmg.
I’m now 219 ( i can move up to rank 3 pyro any time i want tho and probably will at the end of the day ) but i must say i love my class so far, and with the upcoming boost coming on pyro department its going to be amazing.
Not to forget that fire pillar + ice tree + snow rolling ball is extremely good for party wise. I did a truffle party yesterday, and i got directly 2 friend invites. Because how effective my class is in groups.
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thanks for your opinion this is why i kinda wanted to start a discussion on it to get different peoples opnion on it to see if its actually worth it or not and it sounds like it is
Incoming wall of tekst. ( i type extremely fast so it takes no time for me 
)
make sure if you roll one, that you level it as following.
rank 1 = wizard 1
rank 2 = pyro 1
rank 3 = cryo 1
rank 4 = pyro 2
rank 5 = cryo 2
rank 6 = cryo 3
rank 7 = pyro 3
Reason for this is, pyro 1 gives you fireball, basically makes bosses a joke, or harder monsters that you can’t 1/2 hit with auto attacks.
Cryo 1 = really good at this point, because it gives you a other source of dmg that aoe freezes but also does aoe dmg on a short cooldown nice with ice spike, also ice wall is a good burst aoe skill on low levels.
The only thing you care about is aoe at this point, as most monsters will die from auto hits anyway with priest buffs + rod or you always got fire balls to burst even harder.
Pyro 2 after it, because of higher level fireball and fire pillar, max both. Both will last you all the way up to 230 easily, level attributes if you got some cash because it makes it a lot more stronger ( specially fire ball ).
( make sure you use fireball attribute “the dot” makes fireballs dmg far more higher ).
After that its rushing to c3 cryo. reason for this is at 183+ and higher ( which you probalby hit c3 ) you will encounter more and more flying monster elites or flying monsters in general that are really hard to kill otherwise or to defend against. Pyro 3 can wait. This is also when your playstyle changes.
At rank 7 pyro 3. because the obvious
With rank 8 incoming, we will have to see what everything brings, But there are so many possibility’s for pyro/cryo to go for, so it’s going to be interesting.
Some hidden things about pyro is that are not said on the skill builders.
- fire pillar becomes 2x bigger aoe size on lvl 10, so its interesting to go for. ( for its dmg wise not so much )
- fire pillar roots flying + ground targets in place and on max level that can will be 17 seconds long. ( really good for mobbing monsters )
Other things:
I’m not sure on what points to spend on the pyro tree in total yet. Because it’s kinda hard to figure out what would be the best. As pyro has insane amounts of 15 pointer skills.
But my current solution to go for is:
- 15 fire ball
- 10+ fire wall ( reason for firewall = hits flying + ground targets, i use this far more then flame ground because of it hiting flying targets at higher level ) Also easy to hit monsters with, as you can roll them through it
- flame ground i will keep it low, like skil level 3 low, reason for this is, it free’s up room for other skills but also because level 3 = 20k dmg, lvl 15 = 37k dmg. The dmg really isn’t there for the points you have to throw into it. While firewall will do far better on higher levels then lower levels.
- enchant fire lvl 5, non stop fire boost on auto hits, so good. No regrets at all. You can go for 1, just to have the aoe debuff which really helps dmg wise. ( this will make it possible to max fire wall otherwise its going to be stuck at 11)
- 10 fire pillar, the aoe size is interesting with ice pillar, to cover them all up easily, dmg wise it’s not really increasing by much.
- hell breath 1, dmg increase from 1>5 isn’t there at all, its about 5-10% more dmg for 4 skill points, not worth it. just up your attribute a little more.
It gets a massive boost because of the debuff it applies in future patch so surely get 1 point into it, it will be a must.
- flare is junk don’t even go there.
ccing most of the time. If they are slow you will burst
Edit
Cryo department what i will go for is this:
- 1 in ice bolt, perm freeze basically. really good against flying elites to cc them or any monster in general, higher level not interesting
- 15 ice spike, dmg is really solid, i still tend to one hit monsters at this current level with it. Its a aoe freeze that doesn’t always freeze but helps a lot as filler skill. best skill to max.
- 7-8 ice wall, makes it a bit more stronger and bigger then c1 ice wall, not much reason to go for it higher, it will cc bosses in a corner good enough and is durable and big enough to play around with.
- ice blast, total waste of points dont go there at all
- 9-10, subzero shield, really anything above 8 is good, 8 = already 50% freeze chance, got it 9 myself, maybe will 10 it. But its basically your best defense skill. Really good when you get nailed on the ground or need to take pressure of ranged monsters that freezes them up
- 1 gust, while gust itself isn’t that great. With it’s attribute it can do a lot of dmg still as filler skill on fire resist frozen targets. It also pushes monsters back, which isn’t that bad to have at times.
- 5 snow rolling ball, nothing else to say really must have max
- 5 frost pillar, same as snow rolling ball, max absolutely needed.
Your snow ball can be a lot bigger with audri staff, as it boosts it by 2 levels, but your damage and freeze time will be lowered, as you lack arde dagger dmg increase and in my case ignition burn. ( which can add up to 5-8k dmg at times on elites dmg wise, with arde adding loads of dmg as most of your dmg is overtime dmg in smaller numbers. ).
Also snow ball bigger size can work against you as movement gets more limited through objects.
A really good plus point is the freeze on it, this makes ice tree lock monsters in place a lot more better, but that’s about it.
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thanks this will help a lot I was actually just contemplating this hehe
Yeah, you are doing a great damage in Alamenth but those mobs are weak to fire (Plants), so rest 50% of damage for any other map, actually I will like to see how it works on Evac, Storage or even better on Maven Abbys.
Now I don’t how your 1800-1900 per hit is better than 2500 per hit from frost cloud on mobs that are not even weak to ice. Btw Ele is not my main neither, it is pretty boring.
I agree with with the Cryomancer description in general except for the part of Ice Pike doing a nice damage over anything that is not fire property… even in fire monsters is a bit weak since it is a nice burst but it won’t do any notorious damage at high lvl, but I will keep it for pvp.
Keep in mind that snowball by itself also does a hefty amount of dmg, so it’s not only the fire balls that you see proccing. Then on top of it, ignition rod throws dots on it but also fire balls which does a hefty amount of dmg with that specially the more monsters you soak into it. Also you can push more fireballs into the ball to enhance dmg even futher.
Then on top of it, attributes, fireball costs 3x lower to level attributes then frost cloud. It costs nearly 10 million to get frost cloud to 70%, and it costs only a bit more then 3m to get the same with fire balls. Then not to forget that you can also upgrade snow rolling ball dmg by itself.
Then with that, frost cloud doesn’t hit any flying monster and doesn’t cc any flying monster, it’s ground cc is also wonky to say the least, sometimes monsters just walk straight over it and hit you. but it does hit most likely more monsters through the limitation of fire ball. So it’s a tradeoff all around.
While the cooldown obviously of frost cloud is lower in comparison towards snow ball ( for ball is shorter then frost cloud actually ), its practical use is also lower as higher content is getting more and more flying monsters. Which is kinda weird for a skill called cloud to not hit flying monsters tho, maybe that gets adressed in some patch.
i test on truffles because they are high hp monsters ( i have no clue about weakness of truffles to be honest ), highest i encountered yet with this char and everybody else on youtube seems to make video’s about how much dmg they do on them. So if they are weak or not, doesn’t really matter much as every single elite i encountered vaporized with that combo easily. It’s not like i can’t use any of my other skills in combination with that. which i basically said in my earlier reaction on how much dmg the other skills on such low levels already do. even if i would get 100% reduced dmg, i would still finish them off with that combo of low level rank skills
If i would combine all skills, it will take a while to setup but the dmg will be insanely high. So high that it’s probably alraedy death before i can actually finish the whole combo.
It’s not practical so i really didn’t combine it.
As i did wanted to see how much frost cloud actually did dmg wise and there isn’t much going on the internet with dmg tables. I made a dmg table myself of the skill, and frankly frost cloud isn’t going to outdmg it.
Frost cloud main + point is, its low cooldown. But then again fire balls are low cooldowns by itself, so its not like you can’t burst things yourself just that effectively. Most of your dmg comes from them.
But then again, it’s not about who does more dmg at the end, it’s about being useful and pyro/cryo surely is.
about ice spike, its dmg is mostly in the 5-6k range. So even on this level it’s great for anything that isn’t elite. It does work well on elites tho, it nails them on the ground and also adds dmg towards the mix. Specially as pyro and cryo dmg is more layers and layers dmg over eachother. This is also the reason why i picked the skill and maximized it over ice wall as i don’t tend to pvp.
The problem with your build is that you are not going to any high lvl map to test it, you find a convenient map to try it and you decided that just for that it works. Btw, frost cloud at 70% do around 5k of damage per hit on non elemental monsters. Try it in storage or maven abbys and then decide if damage is good, I have seen many pve builds based on pyro reroll after those maps. And don’t take me wrong, I am not pro elementalist, I like more versatile builds with different classes… even when my main in a pretty popular class. But pyro is a strong class at the beggining, but pretty weak at high level.
Flame ground is the only spell that doesn’t hit flyer every other spell hit flyer.
I have Pyro3Cryo3 @265, i can solo up to EVA no issue (not efficient but doable.) Storage is a pain cuz Blue Nou cannot get frozen.
at 60% attr, my fireball hit for 2.9k ish a hit.
I never have any issue get into grind party as Cryo3, every body want Ice Tree
Truffles are not weak against fire for sure, another map i do 3k dmg with my fireball ticks and 750 each sec a burn on them. So its a good place to test it seems after all.
But then 5k frost cloud a tick doesn’t say anything. Because i don’t know what gear is used and what skill level is used.
So i did some calculations, because why not.
A simple calculation for frost cloud means that frost cloud will do on a single target 43k dmg without any attribute, so at 70% attributes it will do 74k dmg on a single target. ( if you like to spend 10m on it ) That’s based on 1000 magic attack.
mine 865 magic attack elemental hits about 1,7k dmg a tick with 20% attribute, so that seems to be correct.
Keep in mind this is without arde dagger or other enhancing dmg additions. its pure test based.
Fire ball lvl 15 will do ( 2 ball ) 40k + burn effect that is mostly 25% of the dmg for 10 seconds long a tick, so that means if it ticks 15 times, you will do about 2,5k and 600 burn which equals 10 sec = 6k. = 43k dmg from just fireball. 0% attribute. ( same story no arde dagger or enhancement dmg gear )
37k + 70% = 63k dmg, 25% burn = 15,7 = 78,5k dmg in total fireball dmg on a single target ( 2 balls ).
So that’s 74k vs 78,5k. And that’s just 1 ball into the snow ball machine, snowball itself does ~20k dmg with that, and i can soak up 2 balls perfectly fine. Add with it fire weak monsters + good gear + and even more balls, the dmg will rise and rise.
Elemental dmg can also rise, by using wizard 3 50% dmg boost skill, but it really only boosts 33-34% probably because it isn’t getting calculated at the end of the formula. so that makes it 98k total dmg for frost cloud with 70% attribute. Fire ball can cover this up with having 2 balls placed + snow ball dmg.
Frost cloud and fire ball both have a handicap, frost cloud is zero dmg output on flying targets, fire ball = can be kicked away. So both skills will have a reduced dmg output throughout the game in situations.
The thing with elemental is, the burst doesn’t come just from frost cloud, it comes from a stack of damage outputs that are extremely high, hail does about a lot of dmg on bosses, so does pole of agony. So there total combined burst will be higher then pyro/cryo without any doubt.
But that’s doesn’t really matter, as unlike elemental you do not only bring the dmg, you do also bring a ton of cc like i explained earlier. I never felt useless in a dungeon not even once.
So unless higher content then 230 is going to change drastically, i can’t see how pyro + cyro dmg is going to drop off the cliff to the point it does no dmg anymore. Specially not when you realize that pyro will get a hefty boost in upcoming patch that boosts the dmg output of fire ball even higher forwards by 50% which is easily applyable every snow roller cooldown.
Fire ball dmg can be a bit different, then calculated but it will be in that ball park )
Sources:
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whats your skill build like? i saw gatygun’s and it looks quite reasonable and i’ll prob follow his but i kinda wanna see how others allocate their points in the pyro and cyro tree
just wanted to tahnk you for all the info you provided. i noticed you just uploaded those videos and these number data when you replied to these thread :o very much appreciated