Tree of Savior Forum

Why magic can't miss? (PVP Oriented Point of View)

General Discussion
#1

Hello everyone, im going to share what i’ve been thinking these past weeks

I think PVP in tree of savior is severely broken, and that’s primarily because magic attacks can’t miss
and why is that?

for example, have you seen a full CON Cryomancer C3? they have enormous amount of HP, high amount of block, extremely good CC, and still deals enough damage to kill you.
im not complaining about their damage, they’re caster afterall, and they’re supposed to deal some damage even without investing in INT.
i know casters can’t crit, and thats why their spells have big base damage, and that’s good. magic amplification is also good, another source to increase their damage.
im not complaining about their CC either, the only thing im concerned here is that their attacks / spells cant miss. they could easily CC chain you,
and chunk away your health points gradually.

oh and don’t forget their subzero shield. its literally “you can’t attack me” statement, because there’s 60% chance (level 10 subzero shield)
you will be frozen when you attack them, if you’re lucky that you’re not, your next attack will make you frozen.

my point is, with casters unable to miss, they bring imbalance to PVP system. PVP is not about damage, its about control. the one who control the fight will win.
no matter how big is your damage, if you can’t connect then its done for you. and 100% guaranteed hit CC spell is not fun to fight against.

My suggestion is that you modify so that magic CAN miss, and then modify INT status, so it give 2 points of accuracy per point spent, and modify SPR status,
so it will give 1 point of accuracy per point spent.

Explanation :

the formula for Evasion is : E = Level + DEX + (level/8), where the calculation inside the bracket is for archer only, other class is E = Level + DEX.
bonus evasion from gears is not included in this calculation

the original formula for Accuracy is : A = Level + DEX + ((Level +4)/4), and the calculation inside the bracket is for archer, other class is A = Level + DEX.
bonus accuracy from gears is not included in this calculation

if we put my suggestion into math, we get a new formula:
A = Level + INT * 2 + SPR + DEX
and for archer it will be A = Level + INT*2 + SPR + DEX + ((Level +4)/4)

ok its time to put those formulas into calculation :
Let’s assume that a lvl 280 archer is fighting a lvl 280 wizard, both rank 7 ofc.
the Archer put all his stat points into dex, and that will be 367 dex (without bonus from equipments) according to tosbase stat calculator

and his evasion will be : E = Level + DEX + (level/8)
= 280 + 367 + (280/8)
= 280 + 367 + 35
= 682

how much accuracy the wizard will need to be able to hit the archer?
Lets assume that the wizard is spending his point only in INT and CON (most of PVP wizards are)
A = Level + INT2 + SPR + DEX
682 = 280 + INT2 + 8 + 4
682 = 292 + INT2
INT2 = 682 - 292
INT*2 = 390
INT = 195

this means the wizard needs 195 total point in INT to hit the archer. this calculation didn’t include those point he get from equipment, and also dont forget
the 10% INT boost per rank, so the actual INT needed will be much lower.

why did i suggest that SPR will increase accuracy too? because with magic being able to miss, full support cleric will need accuracy to be able
to inflict debuffs, and magic oriented offensive cleric will invest in INT too so i think it won’t be a problem.

for reminder, this calculation will only affect PVP, while in PVE this change won’t affect much, because PVE oriented casters usually invest most of their stat
points in INT so the change will not affect PVE.

what do you guys think about my suggestion?

10 Likes
#2

CCs can be resisted with enough SPR

3 Likes
#3

Magic should be able to miss or get blocked. Along with Rush Dog.

3 Likes
#4

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#5

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4 Likes
#6

As a wiz player myself, Yes it’s really broken.

It’s so OP that you’d think “It’s too good to be true”.

Say @ 1v1,
I literally just need to stand there + take few hits and wait for my subzero shield to proc and then finish it off with [Gravity Pole].

2 Likes
#7

They haven’t even really balance pvp obviously lol. (or like can’t be bothered) so why take the pvp that seriously.

#8

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#9

Yes, it works procs with anything that hits you.

#10

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#11

In my opinion what we need is not magic attacks being able to miss.
But some equips (or gems) being able to provide better status immunity / resistance.

Maybe you can resist statuses better with high SPR but then you’re gimping both your HP and damage just to do that (most classes don’t benefit much from SPR either).

What we need is something like how RO had marc card, evil druid, etc so we can actually build strategies to fight against certain CC heavy classes.

I remember playing RO back when marc card didn’t exist yet (and nobody could get freeze imunity). Frost diver and Storm gust would dominate the pvp arenas and everything was down to who casted it first.

4 Likes
#12

Yeah that’s why you can just literally run around while having it up. I was dueling my wiz3ele3warlock friend and he got frozen when he used Pole of Agony to me. 60% chance for 5.5 sec CC.

#13

It seems the accuracy requirement would be too low to be of any real use outside of eliminating full con casters, which while I agree this would help it wouldn’t have a huge impact on the cc heavy burst meta. Honestly the biggest thing this games pvp needs is diminishing returns on cc, shorter cc durations in general and higher hp adjustment for pvp arena.

#14

I think that every game issue, how to balance cc duration and DR to balance pvp, without breaking pve. This game PvE aspect is heavily modified around CC, more so when playing solo.

@OP
I personally think they just need to add drawbacks to cc spells like sleep. (get hit so many times is off, it wont stop people from finding ways to burst you though)

#15

Or you can buy dirt cheap dispeller scrolls and be invulnerable to almost all CC.

Different case in battle league though, cc classes and the like are always going to be on top regardless of what game (as far as I’ve experienced).

#16

yea and everyone stacks SPR, right?

…

#17

Clerics stack SPR if they plan on hard support

#18

That’ll be of use to all the other classes.

#19

nuff said.

and how is that game’s fault? Tools are there, it is your decision to not use them. A fair balance of con/spr will make your character more viable for CC-heavy PvP.

During very early stage of RO the most popular builds revolved around having tons of AGI and evasion, then some time later meta shifted to heavy con-invested builds for more HP and status resist (WoE builds). Here we have same situation all over again.

#20

im glad you were able to understand. if the enemy can’t CC the cleric, then the cleric can prevent status effects for their team. all other classes can benefit from that.