Hmmm yeah it does sound nice
Probably like 1 trade per month allowable per 1000 adventure points and with a token, the current limit of the player is doubled.
It does sound good as more content is added later on which would mean more points for us to gain.
Might be worth the shot @iago_l
Adventure point Idea sounds great to me… just be aware not all players like to explore or achieve those things and might bristle at the idea of being “forced”.
Of course the same goes for having to complete story quests (and perhaps some challenging subquests?") with the current market license proposal.
Hm, it’s a good base idea, but the implementation gets tricky.
Practically no real player is going to get to a high level without doing any quests.
If main story quests lift certain restrictions, and optional quests further increase your existing capabilities, then that curbs bots until they get to a level of sophistication where they can do more human-like things.
Now if the quests themselves had some sort of robot test built in, like picking the correct word/number/color that would be randomly displayed, yet obvious to a human, it’d be even better. Doesn’t have to be a straight up captcha, but something more subtle like placing revelations down in the right order, or activating an altar when it glows.
And I don’t mean free 1:1 trade and unlimited market slots, actually I’d be in favor of adding further restrictions on top of the current system. Such as you can’t list anything at all on the market until you’ve cleared the tutorial dungeon storyline and advanced out of your starting class circle. Optional quests would unlock as you complete story quests (not based on level) that increase your price limits, lower tax (still x2 what tokeners pay) and reduce wait times. Things that even token status doesn’t alleviate.
But it can’t get more convenient for everyone if they’re not sure it puts a stop to botting first.
This is a quest-based game until level 200 so whether players like it or not, they have to do it. We just make a system base on that and it should be ok. There are hidden quests that require you to explore anyway so it’s good practice for players. There are also quests that involve crafting. And, though limited, there are indeed quests that require random order of things at higher level of the game.
We also have the NPC Lena hand out exp cards for adventure points and explorations, so it is not really “force” players to do more of that. It’s kinda there already.
Why are you guys even talking with jynx? That kind of person will argue with you what direction the sky is in. He’s got a screw loose, he doesn’t communicate like a functional human being. I’m convinced he doesn’t even know what we’re arguing for or against.
I’ve never seen him specify anything beyond “u want bots to win??”
This is strong evidence that jynx literally cannot understand what you are trying to say to him, as it is so blatantly opposed to what we’re trying to accomplish.
Forget he exists and he’ll huff and puff incoherently somewhere else.
Looks like you called it… 
@ridleyco: As for jynx? I like to think he’s helping keep the post bumped and visible in this forum.
Wow. I figured it’d take longer than that. Heh.
@Staff_Julie @STAFF_J @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_Shawn @STAFF_John @GM_Sebastian @GM_Francis @GM_Erick
You guys should probably see this breaking update on how RMTers are laundering silver. They’ve either forced the market limit on Popolion meat arbitrarily high because they’re the only ones trying to buy/sell it, or they’re exploiting items no one will ever, ever sell besides them to avoid a market limit. Either endgame is a disaster.
After you guys see that picture and read what I’ve said, if you’re thinking to yourself “Well, this is just because the correct limit hasn’t been found organically by the playerbase”, consider: The correct limit will never be found. Players will never organically buy or sell Popolion meat with 1-5 market slots at their disposal. Never, ever.
And there’s thousands of other items like this. The whole thing is falling apart already.
Just had a bad idea >_>
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If someone (or a group of pranksters) decided to gather a bunch of something quite rare (for example arde daggers) and they collected them up and then started continuously selling them at the rock bottom price, wouldn’t it bias the whole market limit system so that you can only sell those things for super super cheap?
People could destroy the market that way… if they were mischievous…[/details]
They’d have to pay dearly in their own silver for that luxury, due to market tax.
Also, it just occurred to me, even though they can’t set the last 2 digits of the price, they can set the number of items they put up in the stack so that’s probably their method for maintaining identifiability.
I would argue not necessarily:
One example I can think of off the top of my head is “varv skin”. It’s on the markets now for ~20-40k per skin, if I remember correctly. Someone who buys a lot of tokens and sells them for silver or someone who uses RMT (or even the RMT themselves) could buy those out and then start wreaking havoc on the market limit system…
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think it’s pretty ripe for abuse in various ways…
I’ve always wondered but wouldn’t the easiest way to cripple RMT just to remove tab targeting?
Tab targeting just means less scripting work. Removing it would just mean a botter somewhere would have to spend an afternoon writing a slightly better script.
Agreed. The key to fighting automation is attacking it in places you can’t automate. Forcing bots into situations that require human interaction is my favorite.
Oh I just had a great idea. Reminds me of my partner who hates maths but let’s take the basics into account.
Say when claiming items from the receive tab or posting an item to the market through sell tab, a math equation that dynamically changes in length say 3 - 5 operations randomly generating (placed on an image with smudges and annoying lines everywhere) is displayed and needs to be solved by the player in order to get their item. They have to enter the correct answer of that equation on the text box provided.
Being incorrect for 10 times will disable the supposed bot from selling anything automatically or claiming anything from the receive tab for 24 hours and list of team names that hit this limit will be automatically registered to a list of teams to be investigated whether they are bot or not.
It’s a really interesting arms race, and it’s amusing to think about where this arms race might go in the future (this totally wouldn’t ever happen, probably):
In the year 2085, mankind was nearly extinguished by hyper-intelligent post Turing test AIs. Historical records suggest that these AIs emerged from attempts by real money trade (RMT) ‘gold spammers’ trying to develop automated ‘online game’ playing algorithms that could pass as humans in ordinary game play situations. These AIs were developed in an attempt to automatically gather virtual resources to sell for real life currencies.
It’s a good attempt… but…
(admittedly the below example would be computationally slow and is based on experimental research but I wanted to show it’s not out of the realm of possibility, especially for simple math operations)
Also if a bot were to encounter such a situation, why couldn’t the person who coded it just add an exception where if it sees a captcha or math problem like this, it will just call a human to come solve it, before continuing on?
Oh wow scientists were actually able to make that
Then why don’t ask bots ethical questions about life and dignity instead in an image yet again 
I highly doubt bots could properly analyze things related to that 
Well, regarding the case of calling a human, that would still slow them down as the would be human must keep their bots closely in-check and limit the amount that they could properly monitor and operate.
Hah my pic I took.
Ya I’ve looked into this more and there are many random items that have no set value yet being used in this manner.
Do a search all sorted by highest first and look at all the cheap items being sold for huge inflated prices.
That’s always risky, because someone could buy it out from under you and resell at a profit. Every time you list and buy your own stock, you lose money. And shifting the average means you need need to list a comparable amount of times to everybody else on the server combined, even if you could set the price to 0.
It’s much easier to artificially increase the price of an item, since you make at least some profit every time you buy a cheap one from someone else to relist. Although in this case you don’t have a guaranteed buyer, so you’ll run into issues with the limited slots. If you can’t sell them at your inflated price before someone lists a cheaper one again, you’ll have to keep buying, either until it works or you go broke.
But RMT botters have no such issues. They can sell at the maximum allowed price, regardless of any other listings currently on the market, and have a guaranteed purchase to instantly free up their slot(s). And that’s assuming the item in question even has a recommended price in the first place.