Tree of Savior Forum

What is a fair alternative to the $50 Founders Pack for early access?

General Discussion
#1

Hello and good morning, afternoon, and evening to all who frequent the board. As I’m sure we’re all aware yesterday imc gave more information regarding the ToS-inter release. I’ve read many posts ranging from people out right hating the moderately priced package because even at what I consider a fair deal, would lock out many foreign players and divide the community.

This morning I woke up to find that imc has changed their mind and is currently discussing more options for players of all areas to afford. With that being said I have to say a few things in the hopes of attracting people with actual ideas to this thread.

  • I had no problem with the previous/current? Founder pack’s pricing

  • 3 months is too long for early access, I say this as someone 100% willing to buy it simply for the TP and hair accessories.

  • I do think it would’ve divided the community and given founders an edge. Information and time to solidify our place at the top. As attractive as that sounds I prefer when it’s a more open rat race to the top with many more people involved as opposed to only the ones who could climb the paywall.

  • I do think imc messed up but they are trying to make amends to the community.

  • As a business, I believe they have absolute freedom in how they choose to handle their product. However as being part of the player base they should know that there is a limit to what we will bend over backwards for and clearly despite the people who supported the package our voice WAS snuffed out by the majority so they should be heard as well.

-No I don’t think they should get in for free and I would like an early access pack to give Tosters around the globe an opportunity to take part in the EA phase.

If instead of scaling the price by time to a free release, it should be changed to give early access to all regardless of which founders pack is chosen.

That being said let’s stop pretending. Imc clearly is basing their packages on the USD and North America is their primary target for revenue. So prices will always be unfair to those living outside the region.

Please try to keep the discussion logical and refrain from needlessly bashing and insulting others.

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#2

I think IMC approach towards the game release was not right. The miscommunication or lack of it made this release a failure, if people knew about this from the beginning the outcome would have been a lot different.

That being said, I don’t mind early access and I don’t think 3 months is too long still IMC did not give enough options to players to afford early access. They forced a price instead of providing different options that might adapt better to different wallets.

I agree with you, North America is their primary target for revenue but South America as a whole is a lot bigger and seem to be the most affected to the founders pack pricing.

There are a lot of potential hardcore players worldwide which will buy stuff from the shop ingame and I think that’s the key to make real money. Maybe IMC could focus on selling unique items only available for the early access. Cosmetic items will not have any effect regarding the game economy or the advantage from the headstart which seems to be something that matters the most to players.

Keep the game affordable and create a vast shop ingame.

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#3

Its ez.
Make Two FonderPacks
FounderPack Premium with tp and Headgear for mb 30 $
FounderPack Free without nothing. für 5 $ or so.
All the Problem would be solved.

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#4

When a company is trying to scam his community before the launch of the OBT, you can be sure they will scam people again and again later.
I don’t trust this kind of company, they don’t deserve my money.

This 50$ scam is the perfect illustration of why this game will never be something else than a Pay to Win. The open Beta isn’t launched yet and people can already pay to have a 3 month advantage, but wait, they said it won’t be a Pay to Win, so it must be true!

Hahaha what a joke! People can still be this stupid?

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#5

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#6

Funny myself and all my brazilian friends are going for founders. I’ll also be premium for long as I play too.

#7

Right… providing customers with a game and a price tag is a scam. Tell me, do you work 40+ hours a week for free?

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#8

The initial offer was fine. The problem was it was presented after a free unrestricted (assumed) OBT was announced.

And arguably the latency is a little long 3 months as opposed to 3 weeks. Although I believe this is to give IMC more time to polish things as it is much much needed.

1 Like
#9

Long post, I’m trying to be logical here, and I’m not going to insult anyone’s intelligence.

As someone living in the US, I don’t have a problem with the price structure being what it is. That being said, the answer may be best gleaned by utilizing Steam’s built in Regional infrastructure, and determining price points based on the standard of living for each region.

The problem with creating a pricing structure for this model is that it can possibly be abused. People may attempt to use a VPN to unlock the region that has the lowest priced beta access and in-game currency, however, this may be the best way that the staff can meet the community in the middle.

Yes, $50 for an EAOB is hefty, and delaying free access by more than a month is pretty long, but it isn’t wholly unreasonable considering that the reason we have an international english server this early is due to a highly vocal fanbase. I feel IMC has the right to ask us to put our money where our mouth is, even if that means they are altering the original deal.

For those that don’t want to wait, I think that IMC can come up with some early access packages that don’t cost as much, I won’t suggest what that price should be because I simply don’t know their overhead requirements.

Chances are, IMC needs some form of recompense in order to sustain the servers for a few years, and they probably can’t afford to gamble on micro-transactions taking care of this bill, especially considering the community reaction on the Korean servers.

I’m a business owner myself, and I can respect the need for income to sustain an organization’s overhead. I’ve definitely raised prices on products and services to meet my personal and organizational needs. Those needs changed when my life and business have changed. Some customers are looking for the cheapest price, and they move on. Others respect the quality of service that I provide, or just like dealing with me because they like my personality, and they will pay whatever the price is as long as it’s within reason.

That all being said, I’m not the kind of person that feels the need to have a maxed out character, or to hit the level ceiling before others. I’m just not a competitive player, so to me the early access arguments seem pointless to me. I don’t discount that argument for competitive players, but if those players feel like the pricing structure is unfair because of the region they live in, then a regional pricing structure pretty much dissolves that argument. Ultimately, I will pay to play the game as soon as I can, and I can respect other’s opinions, but that is the decision I’ve made for myself.

As for the players who have decided they are not going to put any money into the game at all, I won’t insult those people, but I will say that players who do fund the company are paying for your play time, and you can’t have your cake and eat it too. There’s no such thing as free, someone pays for everything even if you get to enjoy the fruits of that expenditure at no cost.

As a person who didn’t get to play the previous betas, I still had an open mind and have read the complaints about the state of the game. I understand the game is still in development and that there are bug fixes, balance issues, and room for drastic improvements and further content development. All of that being said, I love the music, the art style, and the concept of this game, and am willing to invest in IMC’s future so that this game doesn’t become abandonware.

Finally I’d like to say before my summary that if IMC has issues with capital at the moment, as unpopular as it may be, they should probably release some form of incentive for players who invest into the game more heavily than others, a-la Blade and Soul’s VIP system. This will get long term players who have intentions of dropping more money into the game motivated in perhaps purchasing a year’s worth of tokens in advance.

In bullet-point brief:

  • Regional adjustments to the cost of Early Access
  • Early Access packages that cost less with no additional rewards
  • Regional adjustments to the cost of Microtransaction Currency
  • Incentive based micro-transaction system overlay

That’s all I got folks, hope I submitted some food for thought.

4 Likes
#10

I can appreciate that idea! I think a founders exclusive cash shop would be a nice touch to an early access beta. It could have a special accessory/items every month until f2p and once their gone they wont be seen again. It would add incentive to the EA and give people a reason to join despite the bugs, and allow imc to cut more of a profit.

#11

If by scam you mean make attempts to get you to buy things in their cash shop or premium services then yeah they will try to “scam you” I believe your fears are somewhat warranted though. Though I disagree with you that $50 is p2w the tokens and accessories are a small bonus and considering your paying when you technically dont need to…there is no disadvantage. You either pay up, play the game early and see what the fus is about. Or you count your pennies, wait until full release, and hope into the fray.

I’d like to ask you to not call people stupid though, nobody is attacking you dude.

@CookyKim There timing was poor and if they were attentive on their forums as to the state of their fans, this never would have happened -1 imc on that one. I actually assumed there’d be bugs in early release but completely forget that the time between March22nd and June 19 could also be used to polish and improve the game haha good catch :>

@Spango Nice post imo, ToS is my first game under steam and imc so going to two new companies leaves me with constant feelings of angst, however I know steam to be a good publisher and if they have a pricing model to alleviate the burden of currency exchange then by all means!

However if it can be easily abused its all the more reason to support imc so that they can afford to have safeguards to defend against such loopholes.

I Agree with you on the EAOB, it just rolls off the tongue~ Jokes aside though the problem isnt the price, its the like of options. Some people would pay for just a pass into the early access and considering the actual price came up to

100 tokens = 9USD package is $50USD so were already getting a token deal plus hair accessories, considering how much people talk about p2w items this is surprisingly bland and fair. Yet still its shunned because that paywall, i can understand not having 50 lying around or in an account. So more of a heads up should have been given before imc decided to shaft everyone without lube.

I was wondering for a while, are cosmetic items in an anime mmorpg enough to sustain the servers and allow the game room to grow? Do you think they had planned to do an OBT but due to hype/demand changed their model to turn a profit? As a business owner do you think thats a respectable or scummy move to take advantage of the buzz around your product and the people that’ll consume it.

I also dont like bashing the free players because, I was younger and jobless once, I understand entirely and I wouldnt wanna sap the experience of playing a good f2p game from anyone. However now that I’m older I definitely see things from a different perspective and its interesting because 10 years ago you coulda found me in nexon’s forum complaining about the bots and hacks and the lack of GM presence and imploring people to stop buying NX.

You brought more then enough food dude im stuffed, seconds!

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#12

Agreed.

/20charpolice

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#13

@STAFF_Ethan

/20chars

#14

Well, I’ve seen some great games hit the Steam block, but there are some horrible turds that lack polish that come in under the Greenlight development sector. I’ve never played another imc title before, but I’ve gambled on other Greenlight games before and had mixed results.

I work in the tech sector, so what I might define as easily abused may not be so easy for others. Exchanging currency isn’t free, and someone would have to be bound and determined to play under a vpn at all times to cash in on such an exploit. Ultimately, I feel like it may not be a step imc would be willing to take, but I do know the only way a business survives is through cashflow, and I’ll be supporting them in this venture with at least the amount of money I would spend on a typical retail game.

Ha! Indeed, you are correct. Although $50 is high, a $15 entry fee to get a first in with no in game currency is more than fair for most people.

Yeah, some people will look at this like a switch foot, but realistically, June is not that far away. The “Soon” announcement still holds up, with the added possibility of getting in on the action early. Most people won’t see it that way because someone else can pay for the luxury of playing sooner, but with that logic first class flights and vip box seating at concerts might be up for moral and ethical debate as well.

[quote="]
I was wondering for a while, are cosmetic items in an anime mmorpg enough to sustain the servers and allow the game room to grow?[/quote]

My short answer to that question is “no.”

I think this is more of a situational issue rather than being some kind of scummy move made by an evil corporation. I personally believe that there could be a cashflow problem with Ktos, as the Korean community is not responding well to the game in it’s present state, and they are being published under Nexon, don’t get me started with Nexon… It’s very likely that there isn’t a whole lot of liquidity in the studio for the time being. I feel like imc is taking a gamble on the international english market to get some solid cashflow into the studio so they can focus on fleshing out the game, not just keeping the doors open with patches and infrastructure.

Keep in mind that typically, a Korean MMO either doesn’t make it to shores worldwide, or it takes up to 2 years for a game to make it out of the Korean gauntlet. Simultaneous development is a gift, and an EAOB is just a way of testing the waters of the market. Unfortunately, piranhas bit off a toe or two in the process, but I still think it would be a wise move for them to grab up some some cash to invest back into the studio.

Basically, I think it’s a bold move, but the studio is small, so $200k in quick liquidity can insure the doors stay open and the game can continue to grow steadily content-wise.

As a business owner, I’ve had to raise prices, and charge for things I thought I could give away before just to keep the doors open, and as far as I see it, that is exactly what imc is trying to do.

15 years ago, I was that guy. I have some issues with Nexon’s business practices, but regardless I was broke and there was no way I could have thrown $50 on entertainment without cutting into personal expenses.

I also had no idea what it costs to keep servers maintained, or how much employees and developer licenses could cost, or how much money a publisher takes off the top when they manage your product marketing and distribution.

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#15

Forced? The price reduces as the months pass, before becoming free for those that either can’t afford, or don’t wish to pay for an early pass. The legit rage I’m seeing in posts seems entirely senseless, since it’s on the same screen, claiming that regardless, it’s free to people within a few more months of development.

Too many people seem to either not be familiar with what a Founders Pack is and its purpose, or with the queer standing of the economical virtual monster that is online gaming. Free mmo’s can’t run on literally no funding to the game or company. It’s impossible.

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#16

Well holy hell, they announced regional pricing!

#17

Well its simple, just forget about early access(or change it for only a week) and add the following: Different Founder packs with different prices, the cheap ones gives you a normal unique costume plus some TP and a founder tag and maybe a founder emoticon, the middle one gives a golden unique costume plus more TP and a different founder tag and emoticon. The expensive one could give an outstanding costume plus a lot of TP plus etc. And a really expensive one ($1000 or more) would give a Godtier costume plus a lot of TP etc AND your name in the credits of the game or in some hall of fame ingame. The costumes would be exclusive, so its now or never to get them.

This way everyone would be happy and they would get a ton of money to support the game on theory, and if it goes wrong they would still get more money than the actual model they are trying to sell as long they already open their Cash shop (that should only have costumes in my oppinion but i know its unrealistic nowadays).
Thats what i think, Peace

#18

3 months is just unreal, i played a lot of mmo’s and i never seen this before.