Tree of Savior Forum

What exactly is the point of DEX on a Swordie?

Class and Rank Swordsman
#142

It may deal more dmg vs. non crit, but crits out dmg STR in every scenario that I’ve tested.
As long as you have a weapon and ATLEAST 500 base dmg on yourself.
(50 STR can land you this by r7, and can get more now with +30% to STR)

Not only that but as someone who has made many high STR characters in kTOS, iTOS, ICBT1-3
I can tell you that are no tank with high STR and CON…
You will die just as often as any cleric/archer/Mage for the sheer fact that you are taking every single hit…
DEF and Magic DEF are a joke in this game so outright dodging or blocking the hit is a lot better then taking -10%

However in this game, dodging takes priority over block and is a more consistent way of mitigating damage.
it also keeps you from killing your armor durability…,
Allowing for much longer tank sessions.

In short, wether it’s pvp or pve DEX gives you the survivability that STR fails to provide, potentially making it deal more dmg then STR even if you don’t crit.
Because well… A dead DPS is a dead DPS… :I

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#143

To add up to Xechi’s point, even if we do get buffed to put us on par with Wizs and Archers damage wise we’re still taking risk going melee compared to ranged guys, and chucking con just stacks swordies with more hp even their hp recovery can’t follow.

#144

Number range for those who aren’t used dueling archers?

#145

I was a High Dex low str 3:1 ratio. Now i’m a High Str low dex (4:1) and i can tell you that my base str deals almost equal to my High dex crits. And when i do crit its massive. (p.s. hoptile has massive crit rate boost) It used to take me alot more time to clear those pesky tiny sheep at Alem. Now it takes me almost 50% less time to clear them. Also no matter what in pvp dex or str you are going to get hit 100% by most classes that aren’t swordies.

This point is only if you facetank. Most of the time i’m kiting around so i had no issues, also some skills allow me to facetank while not receiving any damage due to skills forcing enemy attack animation to reset (i’v listed those skills in my topic in secrets of the shinobi)

PVP wise it’s all about strategy, you can be high con high dex, high str high con, high con high int (please dont be high int as a swordie lol). But if you know what you are doing you can make it work for you. (This completely depends on your class and how you use it).

Edit: Dex can save you from sudden freeze of attack animation so that’s one of the pro’s i guess.

In the end if you talk about str vs dex when it comes to damage, it’s a hybrid of high str with good crit rates that will always come out on top.

If it’s about survival then strategy comes out on top, and close to it i agree is dex.

Edit2: Maybe this is only true for certain sword class. This works for me a s1>Highlander3>Cosair2>Shinobi (And i don’t even have a hoptile for finestra).

Edit 3 @xechidna the str/con reference was to the video where he is shown with dex/little con. Yes no tank should go str/ little con obviously. But dps should invest i high str little dex and little con haha.

#146

Out of 30 different arches i dueled as a high dex (3xx:1xx) all of them hit me with every single hit.

#147

I meant, how much dex do you need to hit them archers reliably?

#148

even i m PVE orientated
i m still going High DEX mix with CON
there just so many boss fight is melee unfriendly
dead player have no out put
i dont want to run like a monkey
and high DEX give me the ability to continue output when my high STR teammate have to run for life, especially some boss just spam skill with no CD

#149

Still, given they would finish with str buff sometime, I still have a lot of doubts about dex on hoplite. I still think best hoplite in PvE would be 0 dex high-con, high-str hoplite, especially given how good sissels get with that dex.

I have trouble starting the game right now, I’ll try hexen dropper when I’m in. Maybe tomorrow morning or smth. My hop2-cor3 have 527 str, I wounder if damage will change much.

#150

Hoptile c3, max finestra gives you around 122 points invested in dex for critical rate (minus other things dex give). That’s 122 from the 279 stat points you could be using at str or con.

P.s. Lets look at this formula ((your crit rate - monsters crit resist)x42)/your level)
Most of the monsters at 280 have about 87 crit resistance
At lvl 280 you have a crit rate of 363 (249 points invested in dex)
So after calculation you are doing 41% crits

This is only based on stats, now if we add equipments, items, skills. We would actually be saving a huge pool of points invested in dex.

#151

This scenario is true to some extent. But even as a high dex with con you are still going to get hit if you stand there without kiting (unless you are standing there holding shield when you get hit bad). The only time i think dex > str is if your play style is that of a tank. But if your play style is that of a dps swordies then it’s str >dex.

There is nothing wrong with running circle around a boss while dishing out damage during boss animations. If there is a cleric in the party high str can face tank with the shield up, if not circle kite and damage.

#152

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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#153

Haha. In the end it’s all about your play style. How you use every potential. There is nothing wrong with going either high dex or high str. But i truly believe that dex for swordies is just sooo under developed haha.

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#154

There are boss have really small output window
Unless pain barrier got buff to longer uptime
I still stick with my DEX, I honestly don’t like tanking, but given how few swordsman in game, I m the only swordsman 99% of time in random queue, DEX reduce my pressure so much
Ya, I know STR do more damage, but still even my hoplite struggle to find a full combo window, unless someone do the tanking for me
And even my hoplite running high STR, damage still no where near my high DEX archer which is about 20lv lower
Swordsman overall as dps just bad, no matter what stats
So my fencer is more like hybrid of dps and tank, I was originally 1:2 STR DEX, but seeing how often I force to tank, High DEX give me the edge of reducing cleric pressure and still able to hold aggro via damage

#155

Idk what were you were getting to, but i have 379 crit rate with 15 invested into dex on lvl 280.

Yeah it was 503 str not 527.

screenshot_20160726_00004.jpg1366×768 361 KB

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#156

That would be my point lol. Gears, items, and other stuff can get you that 42% crit chance without needing to go full dex to get more crit chance. (basically saying that 40% + crit chance is already good enough)

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#157

I’m going to a tank role; Fencer C3 should be a good choice due to his buff crit rate to compensating the low STR? I was planning a lot of Con, but actually thinking about letting it at 100-150 and the rest in Dex.

Other question: How does the mdef works? Does it takes a % amount or rough numbers?

#158

Either 100 points in CON or 100 points in DEX, everything else should go into STR

#159

Defences in general in this game work via raw numbers.

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#160

■■■■ that bloody tree that chucks three consecutive apples without any animation, by the time you notice you’re already in knocked away in the together with apple chunks and juice.

#161

One thing I notice in this discussion is that people don’t consider pvp for Team Battle Lague aspects, since everybody get balanced to lvl 200 and receive standard equipments. In this scenario, having nothing except your own stat points, is kinda risky to go High DEX or High STR builds, since CON is the only thing that helps you to mitigate damage.

Other thing to take in account is STR scales better than DEX. So if we are talking about battle league pvp, I believe STR/CON would be more effective than other builds.