Tree of Savior Forum

What do you find challenging about the grind?

General Discussion
#1

Let me start my with a personal story about my day on iCBT.

Today I went to the canyons, found a nice corner, used kneeling shot and taped down my joypads attack button. Then browsed my laptop for a bit occasionally looking up to make sure I wasn’t shooting nothing and to invite anyone I saw to a party (without even needing to ask)

I went from 21-25 in a couple of hours.

So, as you can imagine, I had some time to think. A lot of people who advocate no quest low exp rates on this and other games usually say something along the lines of “I don’t want it to be too easy too reach the max level” and it genuinely confuses me, Because to me mindless repitition is the very definition of over easy. It’s why it bores most people, theres no challenge in it, and thus it fails to be engaging. I mean, I can only speak for myself here, but for me to consider something difficult, it has to require some effort on my part. This usually results in more time being spent- Either spent planning, praticing execution or failing and re-trying. But time required alone isn’t isn’t a factor or measure of difficulty, just a by-product.

So anyone who says grinding makes the game harder, can you explain your thought process on this? Sincerely asking.

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#2

Well thats what happens when you play the easiest class -cough- archer -cough- go try that with any other class.

#3

When I were at 2x, I only had Earth Quake, its cooldown is 17 secs and cost a lot of my SP so it was hell. X_X Maybe it is because I built the character wrong but if so skills like Lethargy and Sleep become useless because if I up them I wouldn’t have enough high level offensive skills for grinding. Maybe these skills are good for situations like PVP but before reaching these situations I have to grind first. I am pretty cool with slower leveling procession as an expense for making a better PVP char but the grind is not only slow, it was unbearable. Parties will keep kicking you for being useless, you will be left alone with skills which don’t do anything to help you grind. X_X

#4

So what you’re telling me is that auto attacking on the other classes is more difficult to perform? I have an abo albeit at a lower level and haven’t had any problems killing with it.

@Raine, I understand that mage is considerably weaker than pyro and cyro, but have you come across a situation where you don’t feel skilled enough to grind?

#5

A what?
But yes this has already been talked about before how archer is ridiculously easier to level because of what you said, cant really link at the moment cause posting on mobile.

Mainly cause you know, the other classes are melee and tend to get hit.

#6

Isn’t that only supporting his points? If he is playing the easiest class for grinding and still find that the grind is bad then how is it for people who play the harder classes?

Also melee chars have splash DMG and you can effectively hold Z for mobbing. I actually consider the melee classes the easier ones.

#7

What?
He never said grinding is bad, just easy with no challenge. Obviously there will be bit more of a challenge if you cant hide in a corner with your attacks being autoaim.

1 Like
#8

Zz, autocorrect. I mean an aco. And the auto attack button takes just about as much consideration to hit.

Also does talking about how archers are the most efficient class disprove what I’m saying about grinding not requiring thought or skill? Sure you could make that argument if I were saying bosses were too easy but in a full grinding party the enemy pattern is more or less spawn and die. I had one of every of the 4 main base classes including myself and no one seemed to be struggling. Also, you have to consider I was plastered in the one spot the entire time, kind of downplays the range advantage.

#9

Melee chars have splash DMG and you can effectively hold Z for mobbing. I actually consider the melee classes the easier ones.

Circle 3 Wizard here and I know what is it to be in a disadvantage in leveling.

If he doesn’t feel the grind is bad then he wouldn’t make this thread. It costs too much time but no real challenge, only button spamming and it bores players out. How can you explain to me that this is not a bad thing? Well, just let the OP speaks for himself then.

#10

Sure if you use “bit” by its most literal definition. I don’t consider running up in something’s face and holding attack to be all that harder than sitting in a corner and holding attack. It’s just worse in the sense that the enemies are just as little threat but now I have to seek them out manually.

#11

well I don’t think the lvl 20’s are the prime example of the grind in this game. I also wouldn’t want to be in a party with an archer that only auto attacked. >_>;; Most of the people I party with are busy mobbing & using their skills. The challenge for me has been making myself as useful to my party as possible & also not dying while managing my hp/sp, which is a concern in some later grinding areas. (50+) – Other than that the challenge is just keeping your sanity.

#12

Most of the people I party with are busy mobbing & using their skills.

-> Most of the people I party with are busy KS’ing.

Well sorry if I made a wrong assumption but I have been KS’ed too much and too rude I am losing my mind on this ■■■■. Now that more people have reached rank 3 and have Swash Buckling, it becomes worse and worse. I am building a deeply hatred for every group passing my screen in the game while I am trying to kill a group of monsters.

#13

The 20’s seem to be where a lot of people hit the wall. I appreciate that things may get harder later in the game and I hope so, but doesn’t that advocate for the fact that there should be less grind early in the game where character options and enemy situations are pretty minimum in variety?

Also sorry if you don’t care for my autopilot approach, it’s a result of the sanity challenge. I’m engaged plenty when questing and exploring. I’m sad that quest were downplayed and dont give enough experience to level efficiently, they keep me moving around maps and bosses actually kill me if I don’t pay attention…

#14

There is no “challenge” in grinding, its just time consuming and tedious. Partying on the other hand is fun, and if we had more field bosses at the lower levels, along with more dungeons/raids with hard bosses at the end that require some type of quest to summon, that would be both fun and challenging. Instead what we currently have is blue mobs, giving too big of a reward for getting lucky with RNG, no challenge in finding or killing them, just luck.

If the exp rates were a bit higher, maybe i’d actually see people in the gaurd’s graveyard trying to summon the lvl 53 boss (i’m assuming its a boss, it definitely looks like a boss is suppose to be summoned there).

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#15

The system only notified me about your post just now.

“Skilled” in my own skill as a player or in-game skills? I think it is the former, if so then not really, I think the real problem for me is my internet connection. It does take some skill to effectively cancel animation using jump but my latency doesn’t really allow me to do that often. I started solo leveling in Chapel F1 from 39 to 44, a lot of people in my former parties are still at B1 at those levels. Actually it’s because I grind by going out until I run out of mana then I will sit near a NPC with bonfire and switch task to read the forum or do something else, can’t stand the grinding without small breaks. One of the most problem for Wizard as I have heard others say is that they constantly run out of mana while I actually look forward to that so I can get some small rest (yes, the grind is way too boring that I look forward to run out of mana). Even if the game is hard, it is not rewarding. I tried to kill much higher level mobs but there is a penalty in doing that, also the EXP scale is horrible compared how little EXP monsters give you and how harder they become. I don’t know about everyone but I and many find that it is most effective to grind at lower level places where I can kill stuffs real fast without any effort. So if anything the game is designed to punish you for seeking challenge which I am very against.

Some people have been saying that the game isn’t supposed to do hand-holding and spoon-feeding, it is supposed to be hard, to be challenging and stuffs. I actually very want the game to be like that, those are all I hope for but seriously the game feels the opposite to me.

Very slow leveling process by mindlessly mobbing then spamming offensive AOE attacks for hours upon hours ain’t challenging for me. If anything I want to level fast with a condition that I have to fight monsters which are extremely stronger than me and I have to effectively use my skills and setting up different strategies for different kinds of monsters, not just spamming all the offensive skills. If that is the case then skills like Sleep and Lethargy can be useful in leveling too. But when I suggest ■■■■ like this some people go all “so you want to hit level cap in a week?”.

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#16

play to LV25
make exp topic
LOL

#17

It’s not very helpful when your thread title is not the same question as your post content, but whatever.

Likely reasons

  • Many oldschool grinders who actually are accustomed to several-hours-per-level grinds.
  • Feeling of accomplishment for your progress is more obvious than if it were faster. (comparisons!)
  • Some people actually consider the perseverance required to grind part of the ‘skill’. (arguably)
  • What is engaging varies per person. (unless you want to claim you alone decide what is worthwhile)
  • Mindless repetition being easy doesn’t reduce the feeling of success from progress all that much.

p.s. It matters not what your counter arguments to these, or others, may be.
In the end it’s a preference and you will often not sway them through debate.

#18

Is the content different from my header though?

People can like the grind for whatever reason they want, I’m not going to argue that. My issue here is people saying stuff like “OMG higher exp rates 2ez gb2wow casual” which only your point about perseverance covers ( although it’s the cheapest possible sense of difficulty IMO)

Good post though. Very informative, thanks.

#19

3 challenges:

  • SPIRIT POINTS.
  • MANA.
  • SP POTION.
1 Like
#20

Agree! I DO want it to take time to level but I want it to take time because its difficult and needs a strategy, not because I need to kill 1000 easy mobs. Im enjoying the game a lot, but I think the mobs and especially bosses are too easy.

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