Tree of Savior Forum

What could be done to make Sorc a better class?

Class and Rank Wizard
#1

Hello fellow wizzies.

As we know Circle 1 Sorcerer is kinda crappy since it depends on AI to deal damage and we know the AI in this game is literally one of the worst AIs ever programmed in a video game so much so that Tails had probably better AI back in Sonic 2.

Now without changing the AI we could have a little brainstorm session here about what could be change in Sorcerer’s kit to make it more friendly towards matching with other classes both in damage and SP consumption.

People will usually minimize SP pool for Sorc characters because by doing so you increase the effectiveness of SP potions thus allowing you to maintain your summon for a longer period of time, problem is, other classes also use your SP pool to do stuff and having very low SP when you’re bursting skills that use a fixed SP value makes the Sorcerer a horrible class to match with other classes. Specially for Pyromancer which drains a lot of mana.

I could say that Pyromancer is overall a bad DPS class. It can be deadly to bosses but when moving around a dungeon or field, flying mobs… enemies that move too much… Melee classes knocking your Fire Balls away from the monster will simply destroy your DPS and if you match it with Sorcerer you are pretty much doomed to deal very inconsistent DPS, sometimes dealing a lot of damage and sometimes not being able to do anything. That and the fact that Pyromancer’s range for casting Fire Ball and Hell Breath is terribad. (IMC MAKE ENCHANT FIRE PARTY WIDE ALREADY! god damn it. That skills has horrible range it’s annoying. Rofl)

Disclaimer: This thread is not supposed to be a Sorc meta thread. I’m suggesting a discussion around how to improve the class for it to work in any class combo without rendering the Wizzie useless or too dependent of AI.

Also remember that this is a place free of judgement. Let the ideas loose as long as they make sense within the topic and aren’t completely breaking the class making it ridiculously OP.

Anyways, back to topic, what I think it would be cool for Sorcerers to be better as a support DPS class:

  • Better INT/SPR Scaling for the “Summon” skill (As many have suggested around);
  • A. “Summon” no longer consumes a fixed SP percentage, it consumes a base SP value that increases a bit based on skill level;
    [or]
    B. “Summon” no longer deactivates passive SP regen;

The reason why I suggest this change to the skill is basically to bring SPR back into the mix. Meaning the more SP/SP regen you have, the longer you can keep your summon out while also increasing your SP pool for the other classes you have to use. It’d give you the opportunity to use SP regen hats to increase your summon time and allow classes like a Pyromancer C3 to cast Hell Breath without completely destroying your SP pool.

The change in the SP consumption would also reward people for spending points in SPR or in having a larger SP pool instead of the current punishment for doing so.

  • “Summon” has a larger aggro range, if you can see the monster on your screen, your summon will aggro and attack it.

  • “Summon” if you engage an enemy your summon will automatically engage that enemy independently of where the summon is it should move to where you are and attack your target. (I think this is kinda MMO Summoner Class Programming 101 but IMC skipped it)

  • C1 Sorcerers also have 3 other skills that allow him/her to change the Summon’s stance between Passive/Aggressive and Defensive. Passive: The summon will not attack any target and follow it’s master. Aggressive: The summon will attack anything around it’s master. Defensive: The summon will only attack enemies that are hostile towards it’s master.

  • “Summon Salamion” and “Summon” should be Toggle skills. Tap it once to activate and summonm, tap it again to dismiss your pet.

Since “Summon Salamion” has the same CD and duration from Skill Level 1, I think having to recast the skill feels like lazy programming to me and having a handy way to dismiss your Devil when using “Summon” is also in order since your “Summon Servant” will probably fill up your entire support buff bar and you won’t be able to dismiss your summon by clicking on the debuff icon.

This change would also make the Sorcerer a more dynamic class, being able to adjust during combat in a more efficient way, allowing for better SP management.

  • “Summon Familiar” applies a DOT that stacks up to the number of Bats that hit the target, each stack will increase the damage dealt by the DOT in a small amount. Nothing absurd just something to increase the usefulness of the skill.
    [or]

  • “Summon Familiar” no longer summons self-destructing Bats. Instead they’ll seek and attack the target dealing minor damage for a set time duration. Maybe applying a week bleeding stack.

  • “Summon Servant” no longer casts 5 different buffs, it will cast one buff with all the benefits depending on the skill level and apply a HOT aura that scales with SPR and Skill Level.

This could give the Sorcerer a bit more usefulness during combat and helping the party with a bit of heals if the Cleric is on CD or something. For end-game this could be game changer and it would open the doors for more supportive Sorcerer builds.

So yeah, this is what I thought for C1 Sorcerers. I think it’d really help in making it more useful as an off-class.

I know that at C2 Sorcerers become a bit more useful with big AoEs from it’s summon and so on, but still they are quite underwhelming when compared to the rest of the classes at end-game.

Cause right now if you don’t pick a Linker circle or Elementalist or Chrono or Cryo3 you are bound to solo for the rest of your life if you pick Sorcerer. lol (At least that’s how I felt).

Let the brainstorming begin! :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#2

-cut all automated interactions
-focus more on riding and actively interacting
-cleansing the fog around skills, giving them name, detailed infos like dmg output, aoe ratio, etc
-changing the way how they increase their dmg to attributes, meaning star level has mostly no more effect since it is by far too easy to increase the output

-Summon Familiar summons a single bat that is picks a target a siphon life over time until the target dies, dmg interval like 3-4 seconds and the dmg increases with each interval; bats die after and the skill is set to cooldown state then
-Summon Familiar gets a passive that can spawn up to 3 bats
-bosses have a fixed max dmg of 20k ea tick as else it would go infinitely high

-card based summon dont have an own will and cannot move by themselves besides following its master
-card based summons unlock a palette of skills that you can use manually like Lycantrophy on Druid
-basic sp drain while using summons will be decreased but active skills now cost more sp
-card based summons dont have an unlimited aoe ratio anymore

-Summon Salamion will be the only summon that actively pulls aggro
-new passive: Lava Skin, that gives the target buring dmg over time when recieving a hit; 2nd passive: procs 5 seconds Lava Skin at the summoner as well; buring condition dmg is stackable
-Lava Skin has unlimited proc count and is permanently active on Salamion
-Summon Salamion has a fixed summon duration and will disappear after with cooldown
-When cutting cd with Chronomance it will be possible to summon more then once

Idk Im just creating that ■■■■ while Im typing. There are much more things to change but thats the core idea. That Salami thingy is basicly a tank, Familiars grants life leech and the main summon should be only payed actively.
But thats not enough when Necro is still around and gets even more afk minions.

Maybe ill add more later. Maybe not. Nothing will be changed anyways and the only positive aspect for me is that these trash Summoners are too bad for every late game content.

1 Like
#3

Nah that’s awesome dude. I love the idea around Familiar being a life syphoning pet while it’s stuck to a target. That’d give a bit of sustain to Sorcerers.

And the Salamion aggro would make Salamion very useful for any Wiz class that picks a circle of Sorc. Generating aggro with Salamion could be a C2 Attribute while the passive burn aura would be a basic Salamion skill.

Loved it.

#4

Ah, and cat buffs should be changed into something relevant. Honestly the buffs are completely irrelevant imo. Im thinking of 10% elemental property dmg bonus etc that effectively scales well up rank 10 and makes it a nice addition of others.

Its late and I finally want to finish Witcher3.

1 Like
#5

Yeah that’s why I thought of making the Servant something more active support oriented. Something along the lines of the Scholar’s Fairies in FFXIV. It could either give the weak buffs and stay active for some time with a Healing over time aura or have better buffs like you suggested.

I still feel like they should make the Servant more SPR related. That’s why I think it having a HOT aura that scales with SPR would be awesome. And I think everyone would appreciate not having to rely 100% on a cleric to have a little bit of party sustainability. It’s obvious that this skill wouldn’t render Clerics useless. They have WAY better healing skills.

I just think the game needs more variety. Like having Paladin’s being able to generate aggro so that they could be tanks as well and we don’t have to rely 100% on a Peltasta. Anyways you got the idea.

#6

I’d like to give Pry3 an attribute for Enchant Fire that gives it scaling like Blessing has. A lv15 blessing adds %84 of Spr and %28 of Int as flat damage.

I would be tempted to make Pry3’s based off a % of Matk instead. Since scaling gets out of control for matk with R8 equipment. Buffs based on stats like blessing aren’t keeping up very well.

You guys should probably add some tl;dr to your suggestions.

#7

You can’t add tl:dr to a list of suggestions. xD
But yeah. Pyro needs a rework too but we’re talking about Sorcerer’s. If this thread gets popular I’ll make one for each Wizzie class and we can brainstorm one at a time.

For now let’s focus on Sorcerers which honestly is a class that needs rework ASAP.

Like the Cat’s buffs are crappy and since they don’t scale with anything they will be useless at end-game specially when R8 hits.

#8

‘-’ what lv are u with ur sorc? this really is not a problem Sp pots are cheap, you can farm like 1m per day in like 1hour, so…what should be improved is dmg scale to summoning, new offensive skills, better dmg or new debuffs for c3 skills, stuffs like that…

#9

Make summons as retarded as Hunter/Falconer’s and glitch/bug regularly especially when left unattended.

On topic, I was hoping there would be an expansion on command/control skills on summoned units which will be also available at circle1 that can give more variety and options in playstyle depending on the summoned demon.

1 Like
#10

As I said this is not a thread to discuss metas. I know pots are cheap, I use them. I’m saying that SP management should be easier for Sorcerers hence the change I suggest so that they wont dry you out or force you to walk around using pots non-stop or even lowering SP pool. I think investing points in a stat or having high SP should be rewarded and not punished by dumb Percentage drains.

Also this is a brainstorming session, negativity towards ideas will be frowned upon.

I’ll add what I said about the stat investment not being punished in the first post. I think it’s important.

Yup, that’d be cool too. Having more control over the summon without having to get C2 to do so. I get what you’re saying, you mean basic summon controls and maybe instead of summon controls for C2, Sorcerers would get buffs for the summon, like Attack Speed or Aggro generation, etc.

#11

Instead of posting how to make it better, I’m just gonna post what exactly I think is bad/wrong about this class.

  • terrible sp consumption
  • disabled sp recovery
  • expensive attributes, especially sp recovery
  • summon scales off spr for defense
  • spr makes sp consumption worse
  • even worse sp consumption with Riding
  • you take damage instead of summon
  • can’t use potions
  • boss skills only usable in shitty Riding
  • limited boss skills
  • even more limited boss skills with long cooldowns
  • shitty Riding targeting
  • shitty summon ai
  • Riding has cooldown
  • non-Riding auto attack summon > Riding summon
  • for auto attacking, only viable choice is TempleShooter
  • most other cards suck
  • better cards are too expensive
  • need to upgrade card to compete with other classes
  • need more cards to upgrade a card
  • quest bosses nerfed to no longer drop cards
  • can’t trade cards directly
  • can’t buy or sell cards in market
  • hard to obtain cards, especially good cards, especially for new players
  • need to do dungeons for rng cards
  • limited dungeon entries
  • dungeon queues
  • dungeon queues with declining playerbase
#12

With our current situation where there are so many sorc afk bots, it is unlikely to see any buff on sorcs. I don’t need any buffss on sorcerer. I just need a freaking shortcut key to unsummon the Devil from Summoning skill. I know we can right click to cancel the ‘buff’ but it often gets hidden by other buffs. The SP just keep on draining…until you cancel the other buff just to cancel the summon…Is it so hard to make a skill ‘toggle’ type? I’m pretty sure IMC know how to make a skill become toggle because we have stuff like Dispeller scroll.

#13

What is the cost of your sp pots :o
In fedimian sevor, it’s more than 800-1000 almost everyday, so I’ll bring soon my alchemist to drop the price -80% so hungry build can affort them.

#14

Coming from that point we can either get a buff(depend on what was summoned) or %sp(20%?) consumed by summon when they get called back to the book.

If anything I’m surprised IMC didn’t thought of having a mage class that borrow/infuses themselves with demons(cards) as buff to increased their magical capacities, unless that’s what Shadowmancer is going to be like.

Fed too huh, hp pots dropped to 200ish and sp went up from 300-500>800-1k+, I thought it was just us in SEA, I guess Alche mafia’s pulling some strings again.

#15

SP pot in telsiai is like 800 , thts not cheap for me T.T 200g is !!

I hope Summoning has attribute and scales with matk+int

And “Bats” i hope it works like an actual bats which sucks enemy life , more sucking as higher level , somehow like DT i mean . Maybe like lv5 bats = 5 times sucking per bats ? Maybe make this function as a C3 Sorc attribute i gues ? ( Rank 7 C3 ) At least it makes the C3 sorc at R7 matches R7 warlock class rather than being a weak 3 circle Sorc

Hp/Defense of summon could be higher i guess ? Since theyre a “boss” summon technically , they die so fast in tbl when wugu/fletcher/fc/dt hits em

#16

Blues in Silute costs around 680 silver ea.
Yeah the summoning/dismissing of a summon is dumb in this game. For some reason they just ignored all the other MMOs out there that have summoner classes and made theirs full of problems.

Sorcerer is an overall costly class for little reward, thus rendering the class a matter of taste rather than utility which is a very shitty game design choice.

AFK farming is something that we should not care about right now. Alchemists have farmed AFK for years in Ragnarok and it was not a bad class. That’s what I think Sorcerer’s should be here too. They can solve the AFK farming problem some other way, like perhaps making it better to level up through questing instead of AFK farming.

Or allowing people to run dungeons multiple times, instead of AFK farming. You see my point?

People will always AFK farm. It doesn’t matter if it’s a Sorcerer or not. If they have a pet they can AFK farm.

That’s the problem with people in this game. You guys are afraid of people reaching end-game quickly just because it was easier than your method because the game design is flawed, but honestly the game needs better classes at end-game, more versatility and variety or this ■■■■ will become stale really fast. I mean it’s only been what? 5 months now?

@blackholemaster

Nice list mate! Let’s keep it up! o/

#17

900-1000 …klai server

#18

after they make summon cost fixed amount of mana / keep ur sp regen, sorc 3 could have a skill that make 50% of ur dmg go to ur SP while the buff is ON. if ur SP is 0 u get full dmg to HP. also, make int scaling like 5x not 1.8x for sorc 3, could be an atribute too

2 Likes
#19

Usually the SP pool is much lower than the HP pool. But That sounds like an interesting concept!

Transferring damage taken towards the summoned pet for a small period of time would be cool too. For C3 that is.

Yeah “summon” scaling needs a huge buff. :C

1 Like
#20

move hold/attack ground to circle 1 its a pet class having basic ■■■■ like being able to comand your pet should be baseline. leave morph and riding in c2 but comanding your pet hold/attack ground should be a c1 skill

1 Like