Unknown Error TOSFEC43

[Awoooo]

Then IMC is not completely blameless, is that what you’re implying? Your posts are very confident about the situation IMC is facing, suggesting that it’s all out of their control.

It taking more than 12 hours during the middle of the night for them to push a code update? Yes they’re blameless for the shocking 24 hours it took to address the bug. Jesus. The response has been, honestly, perfectly adequate. The situation has (almost) been resolved and they did it in a single workday turnaround. What more do you want exactly? Are they blameless for the bug occurring in the first place? Nobody knows what caused it, so who knows, probably not, someone missed a critical issue in a code review.

Weren’t you defending IMC in this post?

Why do you need to boil anything and everything down to defending or attacking IMC? I was correcting someone for saying a bunch of absolutely ridiculous things with no understanding of how anything works. Teaching someone that AWS is a perfectly adequate and even high-quality service on par with using any dedicated gameserver provider is not defending IMC, it’s just teaching someone that they’re attacking AWS for absolutely no reason at all. I even clearly pointed to the issue being caused by IMC, not AWS.

Stop trying to make this some sort of partisan issue about trying to attack or defend the company blindly. It’s not as simple as that, and the people participating in that behaviour on the forum are idiots on both sides. There are justifiable things to criticise about the game and IMC as well as moronic and incorrect things to complain about. Guess which camp your current line of questioning falls into?

[Awoooo]

Could you please quote what you think is untruthful in this thread? Linking to a different thread from 9 months ago? I’m really not seeing what the relevance is.

Edit: Ohh you’re one of those banned users on a new account. Nevermind. I see what’s going on.

[wittyspam]

u market salesman not net engineer. say so here now u say different? lies lies lies

ToS Situation Report /w Ziralspiral, post 8/16/2016 Mega Patch and Maint's

That's life. It's the better long term approach. It's preferable to mass advertising now, tanking 50k new players and dropping a tonne of TP options to monetise them while they're playing the game at levels 1-150 then quit. Better to build player retention, take some time, fix the issues, then launch an "expansion" update that adds a new part to the title like "Tree of Savior Gold" so they can relaunch it as a new product without any of the old reviews, generate new interest from streamers, ga…

[Awoooo]

Ohh I see. You didn’t actually pay attention. My former company was mpgs, where my role was more technical. My current company is still in the server hosting industry, however its primary product isn’t gameservers and my role is non-technical.

Still servers and networking though. And the fact that I no longer work in a technical role has absolutely nothing to do with having an understanding of how our products work, which is completely necessary to be able to sell and market the products to the correct audience. You try marketing E5s/E7s to highly technical server procurement managers without knowing what you’re selling and why the audience might want/need them. It won’t go very well.

I confirmed 9months ago that I’m in the industry. So everything is perfectly consistent.

[ricardo_fuzeto]

Truth is: AWS is not the problem with IMC and ToS. If it was so, then I guess AWS would never be the choice “to-go” in the business world, since AWS is currently one of the most used web hosting services (Awoooo may even give more accurate data about this than me).

You guys just want to attack IMC because your internet connection isn’t giving you a seamless gameplay experience, and thus you prefer to attack the company instead of diving into the problem and trying to prospect where the problem is.

Well, let me tell you all something: around a month ago, I did EVERYTHING related to network analysis, in order to try to find a service/application/whatever slowing down ToS here. I had severe lag problems, and couldn’t play it at all. Turned out that there was NOTHING from my router “inside”: the problem clearly could be only inside ToS’s code or IMC’s server side. However, since I was the only one having this problem, this situations eliminates both possibilites.

What’s left? Mere inconvenience caused by Windows’ poor functioning. That just happens, and you are left with nothing to do about it.

What you all should take out of this story? That the problem, most of the times, is not on the company’s side, but in your crappy PC even if it’s one of the most recent ones. Remember that there is not only ToS running in your PC: literally any other program can (and potentially will) interfere in your gaming experience, in such a way that even Windows itself interfere sometimes. So, make everyone a favor: stop whining about IMC being guilty or not for the lag you’re suffering, ad try to do something serious about it. If it’s not everyone having such lag, it’s more likely that the problem is on YOUR SIDE!!!

[deanoreadman]

But everyone is having the problem, this isn’t isolated at all, it’s huge amounts of players, and other Amazon hosted things are fine

Seems like a waste of time (this time) to blame other outside factors when this was IMC’s patch that clearly 99.99999999% was the culprit.

[ricardo_fuzeto]

So…it doesn’t seem to be a problem on Amazon side right? If it was, then other services would also been having problems now

[dragonfeian]

I don’t get it the sense of this. Is it trolling?
IMC admitted it’s a problem on their side and, obviously, it’s impossible that the problem lies in the machine of every tos player…

[Scyris]

Well it depends, IMC US which is what I assume runs itos might not be able/allowed to directly edit the game files, which means they have to contact korea to look into it and issue a patch. The timelag to contact korea branch and get them to do it is the problem. ALOT of f2p’s work like this, where the publisher can’t change any game files themselves and they have to contact the game’s main company in another country to get what they need. This introduces alot of delays, especally if the game is hosted in the usa, as koreans seem to hate the english versions of their games for some reason, and offer them subpar service.

Also some bugs can be extremly hard to track down. There’s bugs in some games fans working at it for years still are unable to find, nor was the games devoloper itself able to find the issue. All it takes is one line or even a few letters of a string of code to be off to cause goddess knows what problems.

[A1mighty]

They basically highlighted a bunch of code and pressed delete. Low and behold; that code had triggers that were linked to the original code. So everytime the original code looks for the code that was erased to launch a trigger but instead it hiccups and can’t find it hence the cause of the lag spikes.

When code isn’t fluent it freezes for a bit looking for it, that’s why it’s happening constantly. They just don’t know the part of the code that is searching and SO they are searching.

[SMoRuCho]

Well, it is widely known Tos has potato code. Almost every maint have bugs afterwards.

[Aegrus]

The problem lies that this game is directly managed by a company in Korea. They have not actually liscensed this game and there is no local management in the region.

This causes numerous issues, since even the GMs are in Korea. Some of which include language barriers(pretty big), time difference, cultural difference(how players react to problems, techs cubes, etc…), and overworked GMs ( they like you manage their own server as well).

[fatedhour]

There’s pros to being directly managed by the parent company too. I believe the pros outweigh the cons also.

Consider Nexon NA, it’s so bad it’s like 20000000x worse than Nexon KR. If Maplestory NA was managed by Nexon KR it would easily be a lot better than now.

[Raizan]

Would it benefit IMC to have Debug Statements in their functions(to help identify the error) or if leaving the debug statements can cause exploits based on your experience @Awoooo? (Meaning if players are able to read the statements not making the codes private). I remember my teacher always telling us to place out debug statements to help us find out our coding trace problems. But since I’m just a starter, I don’t know what this might cause.

Pardon me for the off topic question.

[Aegrus]

Debug statements are simply extra code that only runs when you want to test it. Without having access to the source code I can’t say wether they exist or not. They simply are tools for the programmers that the end user never sees unless they also have access to the source code.

To directly answer your first part, yes they would help programmers if utilized well. However, I feel that most of the problems arise from management and protocol( or lack thereof).

Most problems like this stem from lack of code review and proper protocols for reverting changes that cause issues.
I.E. you just highlight and delete or comment out a chunk of code and hit compile. It may be valid code, but other dependent functions may break.

[Aegrus]

Your right in that it’s not perfect. However, in your example, Nexon NA has to run everything by Nexon Korea which allowed for very little room(if any) to tweak the game better for a vastly different culture. This gives you the worst of both sides. This causes the same disconnect and further delays response time.

Most Korean companies, and most companies worldwide, are very hesitant to give up control to another company. This is especially damaging to games, as evidenced in the prevalence of the “gacha” gamble cubes that plague eastern games. Koreans may be okay with spending real money to gamble on an ingame item, but North Americans tend to rather pay upfront for an item they know they will get.

[Noobz]

I.E. you just highlight and delete or comment out a chunk of code and hit compile. It may be valid code, but other dependent functions may break.

tos devs loves spaghetti.

spaghetti for breakfast.
spaghetti for lunch.
spaghetti for dinner.
still spaghetti for snacks.

[Synthed]

I really hope devs aren´t doing the same work x times each server, because it seems nightmerish to work on this kind of pressure. If only they had done a translation module for kr to english for all text they could use the same software each instance instead of doing a custom build for iToS. (I hardly believe they code in kr)

Most people don´t understand that connecting udp/tcp sessions to a server that has a very different hardware and work seamessly (different hardware deal with runtime different, it also varies per compile build), or chosing if using udp or tcp with custom code for each compromising features, or automating the server provisioning, or testing the commits, etc is very hard work because all machines must be synchronized at some levels and must work like a clock.

Not having lag in a mmo is an illusion obtained after very careful focused programming, because it implies having algs in the background that do predictive processes transparent to the viewer/player, to mimic the position of each char each server tick, and updating all chars online and events at once per tick to create the illusion that is in real-time. Some people believe devs only have to connect the machines IPs or having dedicated machines and that is all needed (or they need to ‘download more RAM’).

Let´s hope the devs are having good working environments, and their mental health is fine.