Tree of Savior Forum

Unfair for wizard who still use staff after rebuild

General Discussion
#1

for ichored velcoffer shield/rod/staff , with blue gems
the difference is
for staff user

  1. 1k more matk.

and rod+shield
1.10k pdef, with some block chance.
2.casting time reduction.
3.1 line of enchant jewel from shield.

as known, many DPS wizard class have skills requiring casting time. it went conflict to what a staff mean to be if even dps wizard have to use rod for quick dmg. and 1k matk isn’t much anymore to be honest, because chap card won’t scale with matk anymore, and generally higher base value weapons.
and, imagine you got 1 more dmg line like 15%pvp/boss/main weapon dmg, defensive stats on shield with a rod ,the damage could be higher with shield+rod than using staff meanwhile rod user is more tanky…
what i suggest is to make at least< enchant stats> on staff 150% value of rod ,or add .

1 Like
#2

Well, it’s big and you can mele-AA with it :smiley:
But yeah, staffs seem pretty underwhelmed now

#3

Your definition of unfair is crooked.

Staff has the following benefits:

it costs only 36 Velcoffer fragments to craft, opposed to 54 fragments to craft rod + shield.

You only need 5 blue gems instead of 6 blue gems for rod + shield.

You only need to spend 203 blessed gems for T10 instead of 229 blessed gems for T10 on rod and shield.

You only need one ichor for staff instead of two for rod & shield.

You only need to enchant Staff instead of rod & shield.

You only need to awaken Staff instead of rod & shield.

You only need one Velcoffer set enchantment via partis solutions.

No matter how I look at this list, the extra defense and block chance and enchant is earned through way higher total investments into the equipment.

With so many high amounts of silver & resources spent to achieve more in the end, every bit of the additional benefits is earned.

Staff is just the cheaper budget solution, and in PVE shield doesn’t matter one tiny bit.
Clever Wizards made a shield, transcended it to T10 and exchange it for Staff when Re:build hits to use it primarily for PVE since +6 Staff is as good as +16 rod in terms of attack, meaning you can save up till you have a T10 +16 rod to replace it later on.

The same applies to Clerics and two-handed maces. Why bother using a weaker weapon? Just use the budget option till you’ve got your weapon ready and then go for it.

Why don’t you suggest for Wizards Staff mastery to be reintroduced and changed into something similar to Clerics two-handed mace mastery (+10% damage when equipping two-handed maces)?

1 Like
#4

nice point of saving silvers and resource of being weaker, then why not just delete staff category? if you cannot afford shield, then go ahead with rod
benifits:

  1. 27 fragements
  2. 110gems to T10
  3. 50% casting reducetion
  4. 3 blue gems only
  5. less mats to craft rod for ichor
    etc
    sounds more cute with a rod yea? anyway it won’t rly make a difference for having rod/staff in pve, sometimes rod even better for classes like elementalist etc.

then what is the point of having staff?
my own opinion is to have more aggrossive stats, not just i paid more velcoffer fragements and 90 more blessed gems and 2more gems just to have 1k or 800matk(actually 600 were from gems lmao), meanwhilei can use these silver to make T9 rod+T8 shield?no to mention even if you dont trans ur shield the advantage of this set is still too big.so investiment isn’t the factor you become more op, is because you choose to use them on the op set now.
and btw, not matter you use staff or rod you need all 5pieces only,so no more partis solution will be spent, you will leave 1 velcoffer piece blank.
even count awakening as a way of saving silver
srsly, those variety of weapon categories isn’t mean to be there for save you silver but for your choice only. what i wanna express is the difference of having rod+shield VS staff, not which one is cheaper,obviously, if you wanna save some silver and shards, just go for rod lmao.
defense and HP are always the core stats of PVP in this game, it is fair that you invested more to make yourself have more “advantage” in that, but it doesn’t make sense of make rod+ shield the absolute solution for even some pve class which need casting time reduction just because of saved 1 ichor and 26 blessed gems and 1 blue gem. what a joke.
and let me ask you, according to ur opion, does it make any sense of having muskeeter weaker than Xbow+whatever just because they save 26 gems and 1 red gem and ichor?
imo you are trying to stray into difficult territory, and those saves are not worth it at all, better option is leave subweapon empty if you wanna rly “save” something.
speaking of investment as you said before, the investment simply just not worth it :slight_smile: , to save some 26 blessed gems or 1 blue gem aint “benefits” at all neither.

2 Likes
#5

it can be comparatively weaker, but not with huge difference like that, that is all.
even casting reduction is for rod only, what is this.

#6

and if you get ichor from wastrel rod… that matk difference could be smaller.:joy:

#7

Are you serious? With so weak arguments, isn’t still unfair?
I never played staves, but everything about this weapon is bad with rebuild
If you make one handed skills scale a lot, that’s even more useless to go two-handed
Now with rebuild archer have evasion so it’s ok to play two-handed, but what are the defenses of staff users?!

#8

So u suggest more atributes like “Staff Mastery: Fire”? I agree, more incentives for having a specific weapon instead of the other. For many, 1k MATK increase is a lot, but don’t know how good it is for pvp in exchange of 1,5k or more defense.

btw…

Quickcast is still in the game. Is it ONLY for rods?

#9

yea you need to have 1 class chrono fixed if you wanna go some cetrain class with a staff and if you still think it’s fair then i had no comment.
1k matk isn’t a lot.
btw speaking of “quickcast”,what i mean is casting reduction , it’s inherent with the weapon now.
chrono+rod
= even shorter casting time
staff+chrono
=just so so
:slight_smile:

#10

staff mastery would be a good thing anyway, coz oly wizard has this problem, other classes have weapon category restrictions on classes and skills.so it’s more advisable to ass mastery than change enchant stats on 2h weapon in general

#11

First of all, the difference is 1746 matk at T10 between Staff and Rod.

My argument isn’t weak. You have 19.98% less magic attack compared to Staff.

If we consider that everyone can ± reach +11 with some golden anvils if needed, you have to cover 2861 matk.

To reach a similar magic attack power you have to upgrade your rod to +22 or +20 and add a 9 star blue gem on top of it for your shield.

However,that’s not all. Let’s say we include staff and rod stats as well. The best rod for an ichor is probably Wastrel Rod since it has +74 INT and +232 matk.
For staff it’s probably Masinios Staff with +122 INT.

In Re:build, 74 INT translate into 148 matk + 35% of your base matk (~390 at lvl 390) +232 matk = 516 matk.
The 122 INT from staff translate into 244 + 60% of your base matk = 478 matk.

That’s 38 matk in favor of the rod,though it’s not closing the difference any further.

To make a real difference, you have to get another ~50 INT from a shield ichor (50 INT = 197 matk).
Adding both together, you get a difference between staff and rod+shield ichor of 235 matk.

Let’s say we have that 9 star blue gem as well, that’s 342 more matk via the rod and shield combo, leaving you at in total 577 extra matk in comparison to the initial 1746 more matk of the Staff, meaning after all these extra investments, you’re still at least 1169 matk short to reach the matk value of the Staff at the same enhancement level, which is ± equal to the difference between +11 and +20.

By the way, about the enchants via jewels: Nothing is keeping you from having both weapon damage and boss damage on your equipment. You can have as many offensive stat boni on your equipment as there are spaces to apply boni (basically weapon damage, boss or PVP damage and crit rate, which is 3 of 5 enchants you can have in total with a two-handed weapon).

#12

since i have to get some con to make myself not too squishy, i have wastrel staff ichor on my velcoffer staff which is 75 int only, so the diffence i had between staff and rod is less than 1k. and it is bit tricky if you only compare the extra matk to the total matk weapons have. the % could be smaller coz normally you will have more matk from ichors and head gears collections, titles and so on, the propotion of this around 1k difference is poor and less than 10% of your total matk, this isn’t not worth it at all to give up a shield which grants you 10k defense and block rate, just to save some 26 gems. even it’s around 1k matk difference, the rod has mastery to reduce casting time, which can totally make up for it to many classes. some classes will have no choice but to choose rod, like rune caster.

#13

I still don’t get why the 50% less casting time has been arbitrary put on rod. It’s a huge impact on gameplay and totally imbalances rod vs staff. Rod+Shield vs Staff is perfectly balanced without this. You can’t simply force staff users to waste a third of their class choices to get Chrono.

Anyway… I got a primus 380 staff and primus 350 staff which I heavily invested into. I’m planning on keeping staff for now because I still think this issue gonna get rebalanced some day, but in case it’s not I’ll probably switch the 350 staff to a rod and use it as a swap.

2 Likes
#14

It’s the same story for 2-Hand Hammer on Cleric. Rod/Mace + Shield is better on paper. But I hate shields. Shields are ugly. So I go for Hammer. shrug

#15

lol, same, but 2h hammer has 10% dmg attribute while staff has nothing.

#16

10% for Strike Damage. Doesn’t matter for magic. I wish Clerics could wear staffs. :smile:

#17

+1 AoE attack ratio. But yeah, that’s not much…

#18

yea… even medium size mobs count as 2 aoe ratio…so

#19

A mage who uses a shield is not a true mage. Look at Gandalf, Merlin, and all Epic mages, they do not use the fuckin shields. We want a staff ready for pvp or pve, if its cost hig or low its not mages problem. Just give us a good damage staff. And i think mage is very weak in this REbuild.

2 Likes
#20

yes, simply not a question about investment, it’s just weak or not.