The levels we get changes on the exp curve are close to the ones we Rank Up and change gear. Interesting.
@Qualna you don’t change Ranks every 15 Base levels. Job gets harder to level than Base every time you Rank Up. The levels for Base are roughly 15, 42, 80~, close to the level of equipments (15, 40, 75, 120…).
The most discouraging part of the game at the moment is being so far behind the lvl of the monsters im killing.
I understand that. What really doesn’t make sense to me though, is the fact that it’s character exp that drops in the first place.
It makes more sense to me if char exp were a smooth curve, and Job exp (cumulative job level, if we wanted to match it to that graph’s axis) looked more like that graph. Learning the basics of a new technique is a lot easier than learning all of the nuances behind it after all.
What if they just reduced the restriction on fighting higher-level mobs? It makes sense that killing the level 1 onion guys isn’t giving you “experience” when you can one-shot them, but if I can fight level 40+ vulture things as a lv27 archer with a party of low lv20s, why am I being punished for it?
Obviously there has to be a cutoff point, otherwise the level 500 players would just take their guild member’s new characters on a field trip to the highest level zone and boost them in minutes, but it shouldn’t be as low as it is now.
I think we just need more freedom=more maps=more mobs=more fun. Exp don’t care if you are having fun…
PD: I don’t want a game that you can reach max level in 2 weeks. But i want a funny game like RO was to me (And yes i know ToS is not RO). Dynamic fights, lot of maps, lot of mobs, etc…
Its amazing how people are trying to justfy this insane grind.
First of reality check, mmorpgs now days take massive amount of money to make and maintain and is no longer sustainable by a small group of super hardcore player like it was back in early 2000s period, so anyone who say this lvl of grind is ok is basically giving this game a death sentence as it will be a dead server period no exception.
Second, I played plenty of f2p korean grind mmorpg, including maplestory when it first came out, this grinding is worse than vanilla maplestory which I thinks says a lot(considering in maple you had to grind on mobs way below your lvl to lvl up after a point because higher lvl mob didn’t exist and that is still better than now because at least its not such a chore to kill mobs).
Third to why we want to reach lvl cap well tell me wtf there is to do at lvl 27 where people are stuck beside grinding? Tell me coz I love to know what I can with access to like 2-3 skill and 1 map per lvl range. If this grind was at like lvl 100+ I won’t mind by that point have quiet a few skills now and geared up with dungeons and stuff to run and other stuff to do. But at lvl 27? There is nothing to do but grind and the biggest problem is the grinding isn’t even fun.
Fourth as for trying to tkae all the old game as example, fyi none of those game has a retarded grind cap at the first 10% of the damn game. All the grind in those game came from the last 10-20% if the first 10% of the game grind already feel like the last 10-20% of a grindy game thats just dumb, there is no defending it period.
I’d just like to note what I think is the most important point, and what a lot of people have basically said already. ToS’s main draw is its class system. The large variation of possible classes, and then stat builds you can have, lend themselves extremely well to creativity, which is great. I honestly fcking love theory crafting new builds. However, with these kinds of rates, it’s really hard to actually achieve your unique build, or even the beginning of it, without hours of play. Hours of play where you won’t be unique, and you won’t have your build’s core skills or stats. I could have a lot of fun grinding at level 100, impressing people with the synergy my build of pyromancer psychokino has, or scout and rogue has, but right now all I can do is the same thing as everyone else, for the 30 hours or so it will take me to get to circle 3 even, let alone circle 4.
Edit: Also I really don’t see why the people that like grinding are getting so defensive. Even with the KCBT rates, it’s going to take a long time to grind to max level. You don’t have to worry about getting to max in 3 weeks…
I think one of the main benefits of a super high max level is that you can give the players levels relatively easily. This way, they feel progression, and can feel their super amazing builds coming together, while making it still take a long time to get max level. This way you can satisfy two groups of people at once. However, you guy’s aren’t being content with 500 levels to grind, and instead want the game to be extremely niche. You are saying it’s okay that it’s so grindy, that no one except extreme grind lovers will play it. You can’t make money on the small amount of extreme grind lovers that exist in this day and age. Even if they buff the EXP to KCBT rates, THERE WILL STILL BE A LOT OF GRIND. It’s just that people will feel more rewarded for their grind. So even if they don’t like grinding, they still have a reason to stay.
You shouldn’t be killing monsters so far ahead of you in the first place. If your quests lead you to monsters that are 6 or more levels higher then you, then you go back a map and level until you are 2 or 3 levels close to them. That’s the best leveling anyways, on mobs close to your level.
The Dev Team needs to read this, reply, and let us know what they think asap.
That’s the best thing they could do right now besides increasing the EXP which it doesn’t seem like they are going to do.
Could we please start the grind at the later levels? Grinding can be fun, but even having to grind 1 hr for one level (without touching the blues) is really bad at the early levels.
Since there seems to be quite a few replies, instead I’ll be putting a strawpoll, or multiple strawpolls on the OP.
Please put your input there, even if you have already replied. I’m sure IMC is reading through these threads, and hopefully we can get responses from them.
I’ll put this on the OP.
What should we do about the exp scaling?
http://strawpoll.me/5136693
How should IMC handle exp cards?
http://strawpoll.me/5136711
How should blue mobs be handled?
http://strawpoll.me/5136723
Strawpoll was a good idea, but I think the first poll is a bit specific. I wanted to pick multiple options but can only vote for one. Its nice that people are putting so much input into it here in the thread though.
@GenericBadGuy I mostly didn’t leave the multiple votes option because it can be abusable. If you feel like you’d like to have more options you can reply to this thread with your opinion, I’m sure IMC will read through these and I’ll try and summarize as much of the opinions as I can!
[quote=“FatePGN, post:1, topic:23009”]
this is usually when you get class rank 15
[/quote]“this is usually when you get your current Class to level 15 for Rank upgrade”
I think this text would be better, “class rank 15” can make people think of high tier classes (as for Rank 1, Rank 2…) instead of your specific class level.
I’d like to see the results of this strawpoll, when quite a number of people here commented against an exp change.
“A higher exp rate, but still requiring grind.”
I pick this instead of the KR exp rate. Because there would be still be a reason to grind and do some quests.
I would say we need to correct two points: the way to grind and exp rates.
1 - About grinding
The exp we get from monsters is too low, the exp we get from blues is too high. It’s a blue hunting party, where luck is the major factor of level disparity, and it shoudn’t be this way. Give blues much lower exp or a cap at a percentage like you pointed. Raise the exp from normal monsters. If we could find a balance where running around searching only for blues and staying in one place killing everything would give around the same exp each hour, that would be perfect. It’s hard to find the perfect balance, but anyone can assure it’s much better to hunt blues now.
People would have 2 ways to grind, people wouldn’t be dependant on luck.
2 - About exp
The best way is not letting you advance only through main quests, but requiring all the quests if u want to level without grindind. So we get 3 options:
So, a boost to exp cards. Enough so we can level doing almost all the quests in each map.
Also, we have some quests that require you just to talk to another npc, 1 card. But the npc is far and you lose more time. Then you need to kill some monsters for the other quest but they are right at your side, for 2-3 cards. Difficulty is important but time is also a factor, so I believe we need a little tweaking in some quest rewards too.
There should be no cutoff point for exp gain, if you have the connections, the gear, or the money to find a group of people to boost you, you should be rewarded.
What a lot of people in this thread are seriously missing is that this game does not fit the usual Western/Freemium paradigm of the ‘Themepark MMO’.
This is not an entirely quest oriented, chug-along-the-traintracks type of game, it borrows elements from these kinds of games but the primary focus, and leveling method, stems more from ‘Sandbox’ styled games like Ultima Online and Ragnarok Online, where exploration, grinding, and community are the focus and mainstays of leveling, not questing and a series of ‘appropriate’ zones stacked along the railroad tracks.
You simply aren’t going to solo through all the content to get to endgame content(a common pitfall in MMOs emulating the WoW Formula), that isn’t how this type of system works.
You find leveling parties, you hang out in farmable areas, you work with your guild/friends/the community to level over time. This isn’t meant to instantly gratify you, blah blah something about the journey not the destination.
This is not a WoW-Killer Themepark MMO, this is a niche game. If this kind of playstyle isn’t for you, then you may be better off finding another game to play.
EDIT: Another thing to keep in mind is that everyone is tackling this game blind, and a majority of quests, especially repeatable ones, are not implemented. The grind may seem insurmountable now, but after release routes, guides, and effecient methods of leveling will severely cut down on the time and effort it takes to level. A good player with proper knowledge and the full range of content will likely level much, much faster than we are now even with the CBT EXP bonuses.
No one is asking for a quest-only or quest-focused game. A lot of people love to grind or party up and grind, etc. The problem right now is that its extremely unfeasible and not enjoyable to even do that. The numbers are just not right.