Tree of Savior Forum

ToS (Social Interaction) as MMO or MOBA/Co-op?

General Discussion
#14

The main point of a forum is to discuss and/or help improve the game. Granted, there are off topic sub-forums. There is no need to discuss about how people socialize with others on the forums, as that is second nature. How people socialize depends entirely on the player themselves. Adding a feature to promote socializing will not change much, because again, it is entirely dependent on whether the player will choose to participate in socializing or not.

Also, whether socializing is present or not in this game, it will still remain a MMORPG. MOBAs and MMORPGs are entirely different genres, and are classified more by their gameplay styles, not whether people are socializing or not.

#16

wtf, dont compare ToS to a filthy flamer noob kiddie infested MOBA like LOL!
i mean it´s almost insulting to me, to compare my long anticipated goddess of games that will revive the RO culture again.
have you ever played RO?
Because you will do the same social stuff you did in RO.
(if they implement guild battles in that scale ^^)

I mean that’s the point about making a Massive Multiplayer Online RPG if not this will be like any MOBA or Co-op game type.

i think you should have highlighted the RPG part, because that would make more sense in your context.

also i think you are a little in the unclear how to use the Abbreviations like MMO, RPG or MOBA

now to claryfiy them:
MMO = a lot of ppl online, also stuff like GTA5 online
RPG = picking a role and interacting as such, adopted from the godfather of RPG pen and paper D&D or his german little son DSA
co-op = up to a limited amount player usually 2-4 player
MOBA = everything that looks like dota and has the elements of an action real time stategy genre, so NO quake 3 arena is not a MOBA even thou it has arena in it.

have you ever participate in RO in a War of Empire?
here is an example video


if you call this much ppl interacting together still a MOBA, i don´t know what to say …

but your idea in generall is not bad, to talk about the social interactions is a valid point, you just packed it very wrong and started to polemical with that heading.

p.s.:

For example, i saw a post about Life Jobs4 giving to the player the option to do other kind of things instead grinding.

it´s a korean game, your life will be 90% grinding XD

#17

I don’t get the purpose of MOBA applied to ToS, a MMORPG.
Especially when you want to talk about social features.

Parties are like a MOBA team. Guild System (which we don’t know much yet) will be a good part of the socialisation, like in every MMORPG. PvP options, the same.
Emotes/Gestures, it’s like chatting: the basics of social things.

Then there’s the Card Game. It’s fun, but I’m not sure it will have a huge success. It looks like a small hobby, when you get bored and have nothing else to do… Maybe we’ll see some Card Tournaments… IDK.

If you want some other social features, there will be the housing system, IMC said in early developper notes that the lodge will be customizable, and players will be allowed to visit other player’s lodge… Wait & see.

What do you want more?
Something original, unique to ToS?

#18

We (me) want a moba pvp as its a fun way of pvp.do it mor like omd and gg.but if you dont like it the just dont play it

#19

I’m not sure a “MOBA” feature can have its place. Even a light version.
How to manage the char level? The stuff? The roles? Adding monsters wave, what’s the purpose? …
But why not after all… If IMC has a great new PvP, we’ll see.

Or I’ll suggest you to stay on a MOBA game if you won’t be satisfied.

#20

I know i know, but i’m talking about what i have seen on CBT. There is a lack of social mechanics on this game, even if they develop some sort or WoE.

Yup, but IMC can improve this by making the game more social oriented wich is good for all.

Seriously? If you put 200 people alone in a empty room, they will socialize how they want until they get bored. Then what?..

They can chose, but what they can chose on ToS? I mean what tools do we have?

We could also think of these game mechanics as a form of social engineering - tools that influence the frequency of new relationships forming and the degree to which trust develops in a world.

Even though MMORPGs are thought of as entertaining games, they are in fact social experiments in relationship formation and community building with many possibilities left to explore.

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_engineer.html

Encouraging meaningful relationships is much more than just enhancing the communication interface. While clearly a necessary part of building relationships, having a communication channel doesn’t do any good if players aren’t encouraged to interact with each other. It also doesn’t do any good if players only interact for superficial reasons. To foster strong relationships, a game needs to provide players a large potential to interact and increase the likelihood that each interaction creates a relationship between the players involved.

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000429.php

Every day, millions of users interact in real-time via avatars in online environments, such as massively-multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs). These online environments could potentially be unique research platforms for the social sciences and clinical therapy, but it is crucial to first establish that social behavior and norms in virtual environments are compara-ble to those in the physical world.

#21

Dont take it so hard.its just one more thing in the big game.i dont say they need 2 onlly have one pvp mod.as for your problems
lvl: really not a problem as its end game in the first place.
Items:a mobadont need items really 2 be fun.you can do it like omd,you invest the gold you colect in upgrading the monster in a lane.
The purpose is having fun.
Andlast thing never say2 people 2 get out just becous they like /want thing you dont.

#22

We are here waiting for a mmorpg, not a moba. Everyone want ToS to be more like X game that already exist (being Ro or being MOBAs). News flash, ToS is ToS, not your other favorite game. If you want to play MOBAs go to dota2, hon, lol or hots. If you want Ro seriusly go to Ro, it’s still alive.

And no, an mmorpg can have a lot of PvP content, but it’ll not turn it into a MOBA.

#23

It can have moba like pvp mode as all the classes in this game are classified as dps,tnk or suport.
Dragon nest is a mmorpg that have a moba like pvp mode.
I dont understand why people like youvare so hateing on MORE things for the game.
As for “its not ro” it is ro 2.

#24

@pascalguenzler MMO

but one of the things that I feel like we’ve potentially lost sight of, and it’s my fault, more than anyone else’s – is the social world aspect of an MMO. Because we’ve made great strides in giving you more personal, meaningful stories to your character, but whenever you do something like that, in the manner that we do things like that, you risk removing the player from the social world.

WOW - Creative director words. ( I know is another game but is the big one and the people are losing what an MMO should be )

@Eretnys
Social interaction cannot be expected to result on its own just because people are involved.
Social interaction is the unique feature that differentiates MMORPGs from single player RPGs as social interaction is impossible in a single-player RPG.
The older MMORPGS were much difficult to survive in and therefore they were more social as a result.

The impacts of social interactions in MMORPGs on older adults

#25

Please, undestand the point of this post. I only wanted to debate current and future the social features on ToS.

#26

[quote=“Arukado, post:19, topic:39788”]
How to manage the char level? The stuff? The roles? Adding monsters wave, what’s the purpose? …But why not after all… If IMC has a great new PvP, we’ll see.
[/quote]Doesn’t need to be a “traditional MOBA”.

Elsword’s Ereda Island system is like a MOBA, but both teams don’t interact with each other, it’s a race to see who destroy the objectives first.
Not all MOBA has minions, or equipments, or levels…

I think what most people want by saying MOBA is a PvP objective centric, rather than just an arena (both are fine by me).

Some might not agree with me, but I would say RO WoE can be related to a MOBA style, even tho kind of one sided, since the winning factor can be achieved even without killing a single player (but it helps anyways).

#27

In fact it would be RO4 as we have two RO2.

It’s not that we hate new stuffs on the game, but i don’t like the idea of turning ToS in other thing that already exist and is, in fact, on other whole genre. I remember some pvp vids of DN and i see PvP content, still no moba, unless you have to actually defend an ancient (you should also note that right now the name “moba” is just another way to call any defense of the ancient game, not the actual name: multiplayer online battles arena).

#28

Of course a full MOBA is out of subject, we’re in a MMORPG.
That’s why I also mentioned a lighter version (means can fit as a “PvP solution”), even if I’ve got no idea of a “suitable MOBA-like feature”.

curious… Can you explain what the Elsword’s Ereda Island is? Just tell me why it can be a suitable version inside ToS…

If you’re just looking for “PvP/GvG options”, then you can add every modes of online games for solution: a capture the flag mode, a labyrinth mode, a Dungeon Defenders-like, an obstacle course, etc…

#29

Basically, MOBA is pretty much destroying the opponents base while leveling up with monster waves, obtain gold from them or from killing the enemies. Things like that and it’s not really suitable to be implemented inside a MMORPG genre.

However, if you’re thinking some kind of battle arena (not MOBA) with objectives such as capturing a checkpoint, it may be a good idea since few MMO’s have done the same. I can’t remember the name of this one game as it was from years ago, already shut down I believe. They have this 10 vs 10 arena where players must capture the opposite team flags as much as they can in a given time. Holding the flag cuts your speed down like a lot and your team must protect you until you can get the flag safely to your base. There are other modes such as checkpoint capture, death match etc. but I don’t play it much.

#30

[quote=“Arukado, post:28, topic:39788”]
curious… Can you explain what the Elsword’s Ereda Island is? Just tell me why it can be a suitable version inside ToS…
[/quote]It’s a “4v4” where you keep your normal level and equips, but special effects are disabled and stats are balaced.
You have to clear the room to move foward. The first room you need to destroy a seal, a boss and then another random monster objective. After the first room there are 2 random jump phases and 1 random monster (a boss or several normal monsters) rooms to clear.
Finally you reach the last room with some more monsters, a “boss” and the final tower/core you have to destroy.
Oh, and every time you reach a new room you can chose to “upgrade” you character damage+ crit, skill level or MP regen.

Here a video to give you an idea:

It’s pretty fun. You get rewards at the end of this mode that can be exchanged for accessories with good effects, itens that help upgrading equipments and some other stuff.

I actually love the normal PvP arena from Elsword more than Ereda, it’s really dynamic and skilled… except that the developers are shitheads and now it’s super pay2win. :frowning:
(So much that I will probably never play it again after ToS release, unless they fix their mess).

#31

What is grinding in order to win a Castle, is the same but slowly? o.O

#32

Here’s a quote from wikipedia about MOBA:

There are two opposing teams whose goal collectively as a team is generally to destroy their enemy’s base to win, though some games have the option of different victory conditions. Typically, there is one main structure which must be destroyed to win, though destroying other structures within the opposing team’s base may confer other benefits. Defensive structures are in place to prevent this, as well as relatively weak computer-controlled units which periodically spawn at each base and travel down predefined paths toward the opposing team’s base. There are typically 3 “lanes” that are the main ways of getting from one base to another. There are also specific type of roles, the names of which vary from game to game (typically a damage role, a support role, and a tanking role).

Heck I’m not even sure if the term MOBA fits into this since it’s always sticks to DoTA 2/LoL mechanics. Doing the same to ToS might not be the best idea but as I mentioned earlier, there’s the battle arena mode in few MMO’s such as the flag capture, point capture, death match etc. To me, it fits quite nicely into the MMO genre. Of course without the monster waves, without the gold, power ups and such like you’ve seen in MOBAs, mostly it’s just your team vs another while trying to complete the objectives.

Not sure if I’m not making myself clear over that point.

#33

Seems great! And +/- applyable for ToS. Especially the jumping phase, it can be tricky. :+1:

Speaking of jumping, the ability to jump was also supposed to be a way to reach hidden chest, a platforming feature. I hope it will still be the case.

#34

When i say moba i say a map that have 2 temes of 5 people.each team have half of the map.the map have 2 or 3 lsnes.in each lane the teams have 1 or 2 torets.at the and of the lanes there the base of each team.there some random monster on the map thst give something if you kill them.and i think you know how 2 win.