why are you all talking about
BOT reporting BACK at an Anonymous report? are they relatives of scarlet witch or something?
Don’t include me on that all -list, I just thought it would be pointless to reply on it 
I’m not entirely sure what just came to your mind. You realize, we currently are in a server full of bots right? Bots are still farming silver.
The blacklist just sorts the apples and oranges. It’s a softban, literally moving a player(bot) to channel 8 for an example. They can still play, they can still interact with other players, they are just in another channel. It’s no different from you switching from Channel 1 to 2 to avoid some bots in your area.
Also with the guild thing… I don’t know if you just have a cynical view on guilds or what, but majority of the guilds are not PvP based nor do they guild war. I’ve ran guilds, played with some of the hardest core PvP guild players and I have never seen anything to that extreme you described. And I’ve played in some pretty horrible communities.
But let me ask you, can you get 10 or 20 of your friends to pay $20 to join you in on banning someone you dislike? If yes, you either have some loyal ass friends or you’re full of it.
You either give power to the players or give power to the bots. Your choice.
I thought I explained myself rather clearly and easily to understand? 
As I said, when botters are mostly gathered on one channel and everybody knows that, they stop caring about bots there and they wouldn’t bother going there to report them. This means botters would be free to go on with their business without any risks of their accounts getting deleted which makes it easier for them. If they never get reported there, they would be free to change their channels later. Erm… I just explained the same thing again but hopefully you understand what I’m trying to say if you read it twice 
That “majority of guilds” part is your keyword for understanding this one. There are always guilds of misfits out there because they often aren’t wanted on other guilds. And what part of gathering silver on alt accounts to buy those tokens from the market you didn’t understand? The same people can farm the needed silver on multiple accounts and let the tokens just wait there for the possible cases when they feel like revenging someone or when there’s big enough event price to use them.
There are people out there who think this is just clever thinking and they don’t feel bad about it. You’ve never heard about unfair competition among the most pvp oriented guilds on other games? The drama gets unbelievable sometimes on them, to the point I find these really amusing to read about.
And I’m not saying I would think trying to abuse these are any way good ideas but that some players are really short-sighted and opportunistic. And you should take this into account and think these situations beforehand and not just hope that people wouldn’t abuse it just because it’s not right thing to do.
As I said, when botters are mostly gathered on one channel and everybody knows that, they stop caring about bots there and they wouldn’t bother going there to report them. This means botters would be free to go on with their business without any risks of their accounts getting deleted which makes it easier for them. If they never get reported there, they would be free to change their channels later. Erm… I just explained the same thing again but hopefully you understand what I’m trying to say if you read it twice
Yeah… they would stop caring about reporting those bots because those bots are blacklisted and reported. That’s the point? You clearly cannot understand something very simple here.
The thing is, you’re cynical and talking about unrealistic what if scenarios that could only and rarely exist under extreme scenarios. This is called paranoia and you likely don’t get out too much or don’t understand how communities work. Unless you can point to me where a guild has collaborated and spent nearly $300 just to ban someone, I would like to see your example of these cases.
I on the other hand can point to some examples. Look under the report section of this forums. What do you see? I don’t see people reporting other players, I see 99% of the posts reporting bots and 99% of the players complaining about trades. I don’t see 99% of the players telling all of us how unfair the community is reporting them to be banned.
You’re more concerned about players trying to abuse a system, rather than the gold sellers and bots themselves. Do you see how short sighted you are? If not, I cannot help you.
I see your reading comprehension is not on the level I should bother continuing this discussion any further with you.
At least others will get my points which need to be thought out more and can possibly come up with solutions to tackle them. As I see it, your current suggestion isn’t even worth considering to implement it in the game.
aka, I don’t understand your suggestion, therefore I don’t support it.
Move along now.
this will simply lead to more bots in town, so that there will never be enough players to report them. i play for many hours a day, and could legitimately report dozens of bots. (before the lv40 shout restriction, i could have reported even more.) this will lead to the system simply becoming pointless, and ignored. i’m not going to waste my time deciding -which- bot is most worth reporting if i login and there’s 20 bots in town.
yea, but if it takes a certain number of reports to flag the account, then this is a self-solving problem.
besides, how does this stop token users from abusing it in exactly the same way?
additionally, if players could only report 1 person per day… seems like it would not be worth wasting it on someone that isn’t a bot.
this seems unnecessarily redundant. first they would have to create this channel and administer it. secondly, what about the other normal issues of playing, like partying?
all in all, this is just a bad version of what they’re already planning to implement.
it will probably work like so:
when you right click a character/name in chat, there will be a new option: “Report Bot” (or Report Spammer, w/e same thing)
when you click that, a notification will be sent to the automated system with date & time, possibly a message from the player, possibly including a screenshot.
the system will simply record the report, and add/increase a counter on the account reported.
at the end of each time-period (daily? weekly? depends on how severe the problem is maybe)… GMs will be notified, with a report of any accounts that have a significant number of reports.
Based on frequency/severity of reports, information included with the report, etc, the account will simply get slapped with a ban right then and there.
always important to include useful and relevant info about the person you’re reporting; GMs aren’t really going to do anything if the person is reported for just standing there.
btw, @Nyyppa makes good points. some people are just —holes. and some people are just excessively driven to win, regardless of what they compete in. few alt accounts, a couple of days of farming, plenty of silver to buy tokens. and then just before the major PvP event, suddenly the opposing guild logs in to find half their members blacklisted and unable to join in. sure the bans will be revoked as soon as customer service can get around to it… but some good games can take days to get that. i’ve played games with iffy customer service, where players “laugh” about that one character of theirs that’s been unable to login for the last 3 years, and customer service is still “working on it”.
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So… being able to report bots = more bots in town? Your logic doesn’t make any sense here bud.
You do not seem to understand that the point isn’t for 1 player to make a difference. It’s a combination effort by the community. Just because you think that your 1 report doesn’t mean anything therefore this system is a bad idea is short sighted thinking. The whole point of this system prevents 1 person such as yourself from stacking report abuses on players. Do you understand how a democracy works?
Funny thing is, you guys can’t really find any holes in the system I’m proposing so you’re nitpicking out “oh but what if there are a million trolls on the server” kinda deal.
Reality is, there aren’t. Nobody is going to be wasting $20 to try to blacklist you and end up being banned for it. IP addresses are easily checked and so is payment history. Again, let me know when you can find this magical guild full of 30 players who will outright blacklist you for no reason.
And the system I’m proposing isn’t even new. I literally took the idea from a Japanese MMO that utilizes this vote kick system. It’s not abused, wasn’t abused when it came to the US and it was a pure PvP guild war game with plenty of salt. So the notion that this system cannot work is just your own paranoia of fear. It does work and games have shown to use it before.
more like a mistaken assumption; being able to report bots does not automatically equal less bots.
dumping them into a “blacklist” channel, where someone can just walk by all the screens every half hour and replace all the blacklisted bots will mean they’ll use even more bots to outpace the blacklsting.
of -course- it takes a community effort. my point was that only allowing 1 report per day is completely crippling that effort. suppose everyone just happens to report different bots that day… then instead of each bot having plenty of reports, and all being flagged, only a couple of them reach the critical level of reports.
10,000 people could all report 1 jackass (and if he’s getting that many reports, he’s PROBABLY doing something to deserve it, but anyway)… but if there’s no evidence, even after the GM’s research the case, nothing will happen to him. THIS is literally the point of having the GM’s review each flagged case.
is this your first time meeting people in an unmoderated situation?
seriously, there are plenty of people who would gladly do this if they thought it would bring them an edge. if you’ve already spent $500 spamming enchant scrolls, and another $500 buying the cash-shop upgrades, what’s another $100 on a couple of spare accounts to get that extra little edge on top? don’t even try and say people would never spend that much on a game, i personally spent over $1000 on cash shop items over about 8 months in a different game. a friend in my guild in that game was auto-blocked by the payment system twice in the same month for hitting the spending limit in the game. (something like $500 USD in that single month.) and these aren’t examples of hyper-competitive players, either. we were buying fashion items.
and again; that’s assuming they’re even spending cash. a really dedicated player won’t take more than a day to grind up the silver to just buy a token off the AH.
you say we can’t find any holes… but ignore the holes we point out.
i never said it -cannot- work; i said that, as you describe it, there are a lot of holes to exploit (but you carefully ignored those to make your point)… and it adds nothing useful to the system they are already planning to implement.
also, what game are you drawing your inspiration from?
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Again, you seem to not able to comprehend this. 1 report per person a day. Do you understand what this even means? It means you can report 1 player, once a day. It prevents players to repeatedly stack reports on people they dislike. Bots run into hundreds if not thousands of players a day. This system is set in place so that bots can be marked by hundreds of different players because those same bots are in the same areas for days if not weeks.
There’s a difference between players spending $500 to enchant their items compared to spending $500 just to blacklist 1 guy who can get their blacklist revoked in under a day. If you cannot see that difference, I simply cannot help you understand it. Would you pay $20 a day to put 1 strike on a player let alone convince 20 of yours “friends” to do it as well? If yes, you either have some loyal ass friends or your full of it.
You’re talking about what if scenarios because of your own paranoia and fear. I want to see you band a guild of 20~30 players and convince them all to grind 500k worth of silver or spend $20 just to blacklist 1 guy. Keep in mind, you would need 20~30 people to blacklist just 1 player. You need another 40~60 if you wanna blacklist a 2nd player.
Also, it’s easy for GM’s just to disable blacklisting during guild wars so your entire concern is pointless. Lastly, the game I’m referencing is Fantasy Earth Zero which had 50vs50 guild wars. It had a vote kick option to be able to kick players out of the wars, but it was never abused. People only ever kicked out laggers and hackers. There were no bots in this game at all. You make assumptions that you’re ignorant of. I’ve played plenty of games with self moderation and they work.
Seems like you lack the understanding of how MMO communities work. I’ve been playing MMO’s for over 15 years now. I understand more than you how this works.
what i’m hearing you saying is you get 1 report per day, total. (if you report Jimmy on tuesday, you can’t report anyone else on tuesday.)
this makes the entire system pointless. people aren’t going to automatically all report the same bot. even if there’s only one bot in town, not everyone will report it, because “what if i see a worse bot later?” and then they see a bot out farming in the fields, “but what if i see a bot later that’s actually hacking?” and then they see a bot using distance-hacks, “but what if i see a bot doing something even worse later?” and so on. when you cripple it to a single report a day, people suddenly get very picky about what they report. they don’t want to “waste” the report, in case they find a bigger problem later. in the end, this just leads to less bots reported overall, because at the end of the day, they still haven’t used their report, and it’s time to go to bed, so they log off and file nothing.
a lot of people missing their chance to report anything, because at the end of they day, they’re tired and they aren’t
and what about the people that go into town and see multiple bots? maybe they report one… maybe they can’t be bothered with a gimpy report system, and just block them all and no report is ever sent.
anyway, bots barely last a few hours, tops. since the spammers are just using fake or stolen credit cards, they don’t care, so they’ll just scrap the accounts and make more. what’s the point of keeping a spambot running for a long time anyway? the longer they hang around, the more people have blocked them, and the less effective they are.
now sure, if you can only file one report per day, that’s pretty hard to abuse. that would make the effort to abuse the system equally pointless to the effort required to use it for its intended purpose.
just because it worked in one game (which was so “popular” it only lasted 9 months for the USA release. this also explains why the botters never bothered to get into the game.) doesn’t mean it will work in every game. just because you never saw it abused doesn’t mean it never was. maybe it really -was- never abused, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be.
hell you keep saying “no one could ever get 20-30 people together to do it” but all you really need is 1 guy with a lot of time on his hands. computers can’t tell the difference between 20 guys with 1 account each, or 1 guy with 20 accounts.
“oh but the GM’s would just fix it” … sure, eventually, probably. but how long will that be? even with only the current population, it takes GM’s a few hours to get to reports. in large mmo’s it can take days. in large korean mmo’s i’ve seen players complaining about tickets not being handled for literally years. [this is using the original meaning of “literal” – the tickets have been in the queue waiting for thousands of days.]
i’ve been playing MMO’s since ultima online came out. that’s 20 years. does that mean i win now? add to that, i was already an adult when that game came out.
the “report” function dates back long before the RMT’s were a thing. but that couldn’t possibly be because some people are just a$$holes, right?
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He’s been told about these holes in his current suggestion like 7 times already. I’m kind of surprised how you had the energy and determination to continue with someone like him. It’s obvious he can’t into critical thinking nor he accepts any suggestions how to improve this system he suggested, which makes it quite pointless to have discussion about it. And this means the whole thread becomes pointless.
You are pointless.
You are more concerned about guilds than botters and RMT. Get real here. It shows your priorities. I’ve pointed to examples, you have pointed to nothing but your fear of guilds.
I don’t know why I even bother answering you but there’s no point implementing your idea as it is because it brings new problems that are still quite severe, and likely.
And if you had actually read my posts, I’ve given slightly alternative ways to implement it to minimize these problems. And what I wanted was to encourage others to think possible solutions to these problems if they thought the general idea was worth considering and pondering about.
But go ahead, keep on insulting me and others. I’m sure it will lead people bothering to continue with your thread and suggestion
You bother to answer because you’re a sore loser and can’t seem to let go that I pointed out your flawed logic.
Let me quote you again so you can see your own statement:
This is why you are an idiot. You don’t understand what it means to be blacklisted.
And apparently you still didn’t understand that part but I’ll point it out for you for one more time (this will be the third time on this matter then), not because I want to be polite with you anymore but to point out which one of us has problems with reading comprehension. Please read it carefully and not just the first line of the paragraph or every other letter etc.:
If you’re allowed to join to that blacklisted channel, like on your alternate solution, what that quoted part of the reply was about, then it would be the obvious choice for the botters to join that channel before they get banned. No one would be bothering to report them there, like I said earlier. And they would be then free to change back to other channels later because they were never banned in the first place.
So there would be no point creating another AH for them then, and without separating the AH for that channel your whole idea is even more rubbish.
Did you get it now? Just tell me which parts of that short second paragraph you didn’t understand and I’ll bother to re-write it like it is meant for person with very limited understanding of English or is mentally handicapped.
now you’re just resorting to insults, instead of coming up with any kind of coherent replies.
forget it. you’re a waste of time.
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Says the guy who thinks adding a report function is utterly useless and thinks it somehow generates more bots.
But congrats. They are putting in a report function while you will continue to cry like a baby about how it will be abused lol.
Where did anyone say something like that, other than just you? No one was against the general idea itself. It’s just you’re against any suggestions or critique how to fix your exact proposition how the idea should be implemented. Because it’s inefficient, extra vulnerable to abuse for no reason and has components that makes no sense and would just cause extra server costs (blacklist channels). But of course you didn’t realize this because we presented our ideas in too many lines of text or something?
And why we had already thought out possible problems for your suggestion? Well, thing is your idea isn’t as original as you might want to think.
Here’s two threads I’ve discussed about “your” idea before, and I’m rather sure I’ve seen it suggested multiple times before these threads too:
[Me commenting how in game report function would be nice idea in general. I don’t bother going into specifics though, as it would be off-topic to that thread.] (How we as players can destroy spamming bots!)
[Here we sort of came to conclusion that captcha + reporting function together could work to limit those problems just implementing one of them has.] ([Klaipeda server] Guy macroing/botting)
And these were only the threads I bothered to reply and were found by quickly searching from my reply history. As I said, they aren’t any way original ideas of mine, or any users on this forum, either, just tossing around the same general idea with slightly different approaches on it.