Tree of Savior Forum

This new attribute token thing

General Discussion
#41

I have to admit that i don’t like this change. (I’m a token user who benefits from the change - to make that clear at first)

I liked the idea of leveling one/two attributes over time and push for the next level whenever i came back to town for a repair.
I also logged in in the morning, my char standing beside the master, just to add the next attributes which will be learned when i’m back home.
(So dedicated players that came later into the game have a chance to close the gap to earlier, more lazy players that didn’t care about their attributes. Now the lazy folks just go at 200+ to the master and hit the level 1 to 10 or 50 in no time.)

Should have been instant learning all the time or no change at all. That’s my two cents.

1 Like
#42

[quote=“Mystio, post:38, topic:224522, full:true”]
I’ve watched an entire game basically give all gear / cap to players for 9 months straight with endless events, I’m terrified of companies giving too much unnecessary stuff because playerbase has endless greed and can’t recognize proper pacing
[/quote]Mabinogi will be an interesting case.
There’s so many crazy stuff from events that people sell for sh*tloads of $$ later.
Some also create 10 alts to farm for it.

[quote=“marcello, post:39, topic:224522, full:true”]
my issue is i spent a lot of time ingame and i dont want ppl to have more things than me using $$$$ instead of really playing the game
[/quote]When you have more $$ than time, you’ll wish it the other way around.
Otherwise why are people crying at world boss farmers?
Because they don’t have the time to sit all they in front of PC building their world boss builds and camping world boss all they.

Don’t worry, things will change later when you have more $$ than time.
Otherwise why do you think we have gold buyers :frowning:
They’re more cancerous than these p2w stuff, and proves that this game isn’t p2w enough if you can buy stuff with in game currency.

Me? I just chill here and watevs. I suck in game and I still have fun.
lv155 and got 500k silver. Dunno if there’s many more out there as poor as me.

#43

The removal of the timing made it P2W, that’s my point.

Before you had to wait, that gave non-whale players the time to get more money and then pay for the next attribute. The timer was what balanced the difference between P2P and F2P. With this change they made it even more uneven.

Yes, I know some attribs were instant before too, but obviously I’m not talking about those.

I can imagine bots now with maxed Blessing running around on lv15 maps…

1 Like
#44

Except. There’s no reason to. Why wouldn’t you grab level 50 right away? Boom, done.

The whole system before felt nice because your skills got upgraded, or rather, you went to the town to pay to train the skill. It gradually got stronger and stronger, with the decision of which skills you wanted to grow.

Now you don’t train skills, you just buy them. Cheap skills (aka most c1-3 skills and later circles at later levels as silver becomes easier and easier) are so cheap you can just max them or grab level 50 on attack boosts with instant ease and never go back to them until you feel you need to, you basically buy a huge upgrade when you feel and ignore it forever. This pacing is all wack, and not even necessary as the old system wasn’t even too flawed. It gave you something to look forward to, it gave you decisions, it helped you grow skills. All that’s literlaly gone

#45

[quote=“i_Hub, post:43, topic:224522, full:true”]I can imagine bots now with maxed Blessing running around on lv15 maps…
[/quote]lmao okay the first sound argument I’ve seen so far. +1.

1 Like
#46

Removal of timing restrictions did not suddently make it P2W - it was already a P2W system before.
Before you had to wait for what? A P2W player would already have upgraded his attributes to lv 100. Its not “some” attributes being instant. Its “Most” attributes (and the more important ones as a matter of fact).

#47

[quote=“yyang_umd, post:46, topic:224522, full:true”]
Removal of timing restrictions did not suddently make it P2W - it was already a P2W system before. [/quote]:joy: but p2w is such an attractive word, you gotta use it for every single thing so your whining has more weight!

#48

Firstly, pacing is a purely subjective argument. Feeling nice is so subjective and you can’t use it as a proper objective basis to assess the merits of this change.

For example, I can simply say that earning my attributes immediately feels rewarding as I like this fast pace. See where this is going?

Secondly, even if we accept that (your subjective definition of) pacing is a something we all value, silver already serves as a form of pacing and upper limit to your progression.

Thirdly, effectively, what you’re complaining about is the removal of time as a pacing measure. Time in itself is not a good measure of pacing and progression. Effort is. They are both related, but in our case, the ‘time’ required when learning attributes requires no effort to be invested, unlike ‘time’ in other activities like grinding which require effort.

#49

dude i dont care if you have more $$$ than time,… a game is not a place where ppl should spend money to have things that f2p players are farming all day long. If yu dont have time go play a casual game or dont play at all. A grinding and farming game is for hardcore players and turning it into a p2w fest is just wrong

#50

[quote=“marcello, post:49, topic:224522, full:true”]
dude i dont care if you have more $$$ than time,… a game is not a place where ppl should spend money to have things that f2p players are farming all day long. If yu dont have time go play a casual game or dont play at all. A grinding and farming game is for hardcore players and turning it into a p2w fest is just wrong
[/quote]I’ll give you a solution

Make your own game :slight_smile:

Or here’s for a serious answer
Find a way to realistically get rid of the gold buyers.
I didn’t expect someone could spend hundreds of dollars buying in-game gold from an illegal third party seller. I thought most people have enough brains to avoid gold buyers and possible scams.

And you’re saying that only people who has time and not money should play games?
Too bad, money makes the world go round. I hate this too but we live in this world, so we gotta live with it.

#51

Gotta restrict all form of token trading for that
Tho if that happens there will be much less $$ or IMC

#52

Definetly not p2w.

Token can be bought from the market.

P2w is only when people can have advantage on ohter players through Cash-shop-only items.

Digimon masters online is one good example of p2w.

#53

or they just have to make a game where all cash shop is for cosmetic things like LoL, Dota and Poe and stop giving stuff to unskilled casuals that pay.

Gold sellers are not an issue, with trading restrictions and banwave they could desincourage ppl from buying… but this game is so p2w that you dont even need to go after gold sellers you can spend money in tokens and headgear enchants and be rich in like 10 min

#54

[quote=“marcello, post:53, topic:224522, full:true”]
Gold sellers are not an issue, with trading restrictions and banwave they could desincourage ppl from buying… but this game is so p2w that you dont even need to go after gold sellers you can spend money in tokens and headgear enchants and be rich in like 10 min
[/quote]No.
Yesterday someone here accidentally posted their $700 worth of purchase history from a gold buyer.
I lost faith after that.

This is a freakin’ 1-MONTH old EARLY ACCESS game.
Why would you spend $700 on the gold sellers who are ruining the game instead of supporting the developers by not doing something like that is something I cannot wrap my head around.

The only way I could spend $700 constantly in a month is apartment rent or car lease. Don’t even have kids yet.

#55

yeah and if IMC wants they can easily ban this guy… gonna take like 20min of work for a GM. But idc abou gold sellers, this guy could spend $700 in the cash shop in tokens and enchants and be millionaire anyway

#56

The point is he didn’t.
If he did what you said, we’ll never have half of the issues we currently have.
They don’t have the patience or mind to do what you said.
It’s harder than dropping $$ and getting in-game currency after 2 days.

Don’t underestimate how lazy people are.
And he’s been buying gold since April 3. 3 weeks later he wasn’t banned.

#57

IMC dont care cause they are making tons of money selling pixels to casuals that wanna taste how is to be strong in a game like a decent f2p that really plays the game does. Ive leveled totally free in less than 3 weeks and now i see its a waste of time to play a game thats only gonna be more and more p2w

#58

Don’t play this game then. Do show us a game that’s more worth playing.
I think the reason a lot of people play this game is because there’s no better ones out there, but if you can show the way, I think a lot of people will appreciate it.

#59

Silver is only a good pace for select few attributes, now that you don’t go one by one you basically go 10 by 10 or full dump, it doesn’t really reward effort since the amount of silver you gain is insane in later levels which makes early attributes pretty much max and meaningless.

Also, obviously it’s subjective. And yes, you can say you like the fast pace.
And I can say I like the slow pace.
So where was the problem that made the change? Obviously my point was subjective since I was expressing literally just how I felt about tokens learning attributes instantly.

I felt the change wasn’t too needed, and wrote how I felt about the change. No where did I state people were in the wrong for liking it, and asked for what possible reason such a change would be done. Taking away a game feature (which is literally what was done, the time management was removed and replaced with silver being changed into a shop) for no reason just to satisfy the other side that likes a fast pace isn’t entirely a grand reason to perform such a change.

#60

Im a wow players waiting for legion to come out, im a Path of Exile player waiting for a new ladder to come out. The game feels great dont get me wrong but i just cant agree on how they think a asian kind of p2w would get well receive in the east. And i feel ill get more disappointed on how the p2w will dominate the game on the endgame content, with ppl buying reset potions, lv 100 attribs, endgame gear without any effort