Tree of Savior Forum

The Sorry State of Simony

Suggestions
#1

Hello Everybody.

I’ve been following the patch notes for a while now, and I can’t help but feel like Simony is slowly losing much of its usefulness. I understand that a lot of the simony-able spells were pretty broken (I’m looking at you, now nonexistent Call of Deities), but I feel like with the way the current Simony list is going, all Pardoners will be doing is selling Diano scrolls.

For reference, the current Simony list can be found here.

If the removals keep up at this rate it seems like Simony will be removed from the game, which would cause Pardoner to lose it’s identity as “the scroll selling class”.

If you think my worries are unfounded, then feel free to let me know, or just close the thread and move on with your day.

I’ve thought about a couple of ways we could spice up Simony again. Hopefully they’re not too bad.

The Lazy Way

Re-enable all former Simony skills, but make them all inherently worse than the originals in some way.
Maybe do one of:

  • Simony scrolls can only be made at half the spell level the Pardoner knows
  • Large cooldown on all Simony scrolls
  • Shared cooldown on Simony scrolls
  • Scrolls have a cast time where the caster is immobile

But let’s face it, nobody wants that.

The Interesting Way

Turn Pardoner into a Blue Mage.

We have monsters that are capable of using the same skills as players, so why can’t we have the other way around?

My thought is that we could have Pardoners become able to study certain monster skills, say the signature ability of a field boss. After having studied the ability enough, the Pardoner will be able to make scrolls of scaled down versions of those abilities. Replicating spells through Divine Magic, so to speak.

The way in which Pardoners would learn these abilities is still up for debate in my mind, since I don’t really know how things would work out ingame.

Possibilities

  • Every time you’re hit by an ability, you earn n “simony points”
  • This will likely involve the pardoner dying a lot trying to learn boss spells
  • Every time the ability is seen while in combat with the enemy in question, you earn n “simony points”
  • very much open to abuse and excessive boss kiting
  • Each time an enemy with a simony ability is killed, you earn n “simony points”
  • Probably the best option, but if we include boss spells in the list it would be pretty difficult to farm them.

Crafting Simony scrolls will consume the aforementioned Simony Points to help slow potential floods of “spiral death laser” scrolls in the game economy. The exact numbers on these would of course be up to IMC.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this, so constructive feedback would be appreciated.

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#2

I like the interesting way but I don’t like the part where the Pardoner only has to see the attack or has to take the attack of the enemy (if you’re learning a boss skill, you can just keep waiting until you fill up the bar but use a ton of HP and SP pots to keep your HP up).

Instead, I think an alternative (might be better might be worse) would be to have recipe’s drop specifically for the Pardoner at a low rate. Maybe like a mini Pardoner spell book that records the spells needing some of the enemies drops to make the spell.

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#3

I had thought about that but from what I hear, field bosses can take an incredibly long time to respawn, so I would rather have a more structured method for Pardoners to learn things. If we restrict the scrollable boss abilities to dungeon bosses specifically, then I would be more OK with the spells being a rare drop.

#4

I guess but I thought that would be okay since even with the long spawn timer of Field Bosses, people would be farming them (if they want the specific equipment or etc from the bosses) Plus, if the scrolls were able to be put on the market, it could be a good money sink for Pardoners before they make all their money back from crafting (although I’m not sure about boss drops as part of the recipe now :confused:

I dunno besides the boss drop stuff, I think your ideas and my ideas would be great for Pardoners.

#5

Need to work a little bit into this concept to really fits the pardoner proposal. Maybe those scroll would turn you invulnerable to certain boss skill or trap…
Bcz if you just make a copy mage, it will lose his core ideia.

resume: need to focus on the clerical aspect of the class.

#6

Learning and selling monster skills can be nice but I don’t think that is a solution to the problem. If you make one skill more popular it still doesn’t improve the other ones. So we can discuss whether Pardoner or any other class (e.g.,combi with Druid) should be able to do that but it would an independent enhancement.

Why not instead increase the need for those skills? If cure is too irrelevant then boost the potency of poison attacks or the number of monsters with that skill. That might be necessary anyway for unusual abilities like Clairvoyance or Forecast and at the same time this will improve the relevance of the respective classes.

#7

They can make pardoner learns skills from monsters/players and turn them into scrolls, that gives buffs or special skills
or something with skills combinations

but I think only pardoner should use your scrolls

#8

I really like your idea…but I would be happy too with bigger cooldown scrolls. If they would delete the skill I would be upset because there are lot of ways to make them good but not op.

#9

Quite a few things can be tied into the Goddesses we have in ToS’s current Latvian/Baltic lore.
Pardoner’s Simony scrolls can be said to contain prayers to the Goddesses. If scroll crafting were related to boss kills we can say that slaying bosses returns some of the power of the Goddesses to the land, which we can use via the scrolls.

I don’t have the time to look them up at the moment, but I know we have Goddesses whose power we could invoke in order to replicate monster skills. I know we have Goddesses of Fire, Nature (poison?), Death (darkness) and the Sun (lasers? sunbeams?) though.

I’m not sure if a need for the skills is the problem so much as the fact that the most useful spells on that list are spells most cleric-types are going to have. This somewhat invalidates the need for Simony. Maybe someone who’s actually played in KCBT3 could mention how often they find themselves unable to find someone to throw buffs at them?

#10

Removing Simony altogether is definitely a valid option. After all, looking for players instead of scrolls should be the preferred way. However, I thought your intention was to save that skill because the ability you suggested is basically the same one as Simony just with a different source for skills. So even when removing Simony in exchange, you would still have the same troubles.
Besides, aren’t you contradicting yourself? If you select only the most useless skills - which shouldn’t happen in the first place because you need to patch skills if they aren’t balanced and effective - then even though the price of scrolls might rise in reality few will bother to invest in it, the interest will decrease and Pardoners will start writing threads like this one.

#11

It’s entirely possible I’m contradicting myself, I don’t really know. English is hard sometimes.

What I want is for Simony to bring something more unique to the table, instead of a means to turn people’s silver pouches into pocket healers.

I don’t want them to remove Simony, since it’s one of the main draws of Pardoner. It’s not “The class that sits next to Goddess Statues that asks for donations”, its “the class that makes and sells scrolls containing abilities”.

#12

But they already got a mimic class.

#13

But but but, there are still unrevealed classes. Maybe several of them have skills which are worth simonied.

#14

To be honest, I don’t even like the idea of the Pardoner class.
The idea destroys the value of the Cleric classes.

If you can create a good chunk of scrolls for a spell that you need, then there is less reason to take a Cleric class with you who focuses on those spells, because you already have at your disposal what the Cleric would have to offer.

The Pardoner class is the worst idea for a class that I’ve seen so far from all of the revealed classes in ToS.
If it’s a class-specific thing like the Mimic copying skills for his personal use, then that’s something else from spreading scrolls to all classes, readily available for use by anyone and everyone for abuse.

It only makes sense to remove all of the powerful spells from the Pardoner’s Simony list, if you ask me.
There is little merit in taking the Pardoner class “for fun” to begin with. It’s sole purpose so far is earning dimes by mass selling scrolls.
By adding more spells like the Mdef increase they could make the class more interesting. Or they could rework the Simony skill. Imo a good idea would be to give the Simony spell the ability to create unique spells. So spells that can not be learned by any class, not even the Pardoner himself. You could only use these spells by purchasing and using the scrolls from the Pardoner. Perhaps 4 spells, 1 for each class category and make each of these spells immensely useful for that class during grinding sessions (and less useful for PvP or boss fights to make them less exploitable). For example, a wizard has generally issues with mana during the grind. Make the pardoner skill for Wizards something like a 2m buff that restores mana for each enemy hit by his abilities.

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#15

Seems we took somewhat different paths, but we arrived at the same conclusion. Simony needs to be implemented differently.

If my idea in the OP is too close to Mimic, or too crazy, then we can take it in the direction you mentioned. The Pardoner creates scrolls containing Mantras, Prayers, whatever. Scroll buffs can be geared towards certain class trees, but should probably be usable by all of them (unless they’re tied to specific abilities, which would be neat but we already have that).

To stop them from being exploitable in a boss fight you would have to add a cast time to them. Two or three seconds maybe?

Some scroll possibilities:

  • Mana Leech on ability hit (from @kill5link)
  • Lifesteal on basic attack (might as well if we have mana leech)
  • Receive a portion of heals on others
  • Others receive a portion of heals on you (one or the other, maybe both?)
  • Crits cause the target to receive some debuff, probably a DoT or a slow

Basically, bonuses that help people do things they already do, or help them sustain for longer during a grind session.

I’m open to any other suggestions on any of the ideas posed in this thread. Feel free to post your own ideas too! Let’s do some brainstorming! :bulb:

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#16

http://blog.treeofsavior.com/en/?p=227
"It can make Booster items that will be used once automatically whenever you attack or defend, and it can also make one of its skills into a consumable item and either give or sell it to other player. "

I’m actually still waiting if they will be able to make those booster items too…maybe that’s a C3 skill of Pardoner but not sure because I think dispeller is something like that too but I expected more.

I rly think btw the only thing that Simony needs is more restrictions of how u use those skill scrolls. Bigger cooldown, shared cool down with original skills, as you said cast time maybe… I think if you could only make max lvl 5 skills it would be great too and Simony levels could determine the cost of crafting and other little things.

#17

I agree Simony isn’t so good anymore to the point I don’t even want to take the class anymore. This skill and class kinda needs a rework.

Maybe they can make scrolls that can increase the drop rate of certain items instead. Like one for weapons, armor, common materials, rare materials, cards, etc. Right now drop rates are increased so we won’t be seeing items as often as we do now.

Making scrolls that increase exp would be interesting as well but I suspect that would be more of a cash shop item. But I still figure I’d throw that idea out there.

I’ll try to think of other ideas but that’s all that comes to mind right now.