Tree of Savior Forum

The real victims of the whole DPK bug saga

You can believe whatever you want. They don’t speak English, you can’t nitpick little details of the system when they aren’t able to accurately describe it in our language in the level of detail we require. The article had conflicting messages, both confirming and denying what both of us have said here.

I’m not simply lucky with absolute consistency,many many times in a row, one for you. Today is not the only day I’ve worked on it. I haven’t come up with the rough idea of how DPK currently feels based on just 6 drops.

Here’s another one for you channel has 9, slightly lower than my typical farm and the drop came at slightly above my average drop.

I’m not simply depriving others of the drop through magical consistency. That’s silly talk. People are permanently afking on many of the Galok spawns on the map. If they could steal my DPK, they would have. At least once over multiple days. They can’t.

This part of the DPK article contradicts the parts that people believe mean that competition still exists:

Also, the previous system was a little unfair, no? If Player A is trying to get an item from a monster with a 500 DPK rate and they get to 499 kills, but Player B comes along and kills the last one… Well, Player B gets the item and all of Player A’s hard work is put to waste. We want to avoid this problem with the new system.

I believe that competition and stealing no longer exists, and that the other part that contradicts this is ultimately caused by their inability to properly translate what they need to say in the kind of accurate detail necessary to describe something too complicated. They’re not stupid, they haven’t somehow magically overlooked the part where it’s horrible for people to be able to steal DPK drops. If they intended to stop that in the new system, then they have, because even a blind man knows the difference between it still existing and not.

People can believe whatever they want to believe, however I would like it very much if people would stop leaving channels when I move to them, because I firmly believe that cooperation is now beneficial and stealing is no longer a factor. Bugs are still a factor, however we can’t really do much about those, or even tell whether the system is bugging or not easily without glaringly obvious faults occurring.

I’m guessing in such cases you get the drop pretty much right after switching channels, correct? Your seemingly pointless and endless killing on one channel affects chances for all others, so it’s possible another person in a different channel allowed for a monster with a rare drop to spawn off your efforts (This would happen as a mere coincidence, with them killing and thus making monsters respawn right when the RNG dictates it’s time for the drop to be obtained).

No. The bug I was talking about can occur with all channels empty. I’ve discussed it with @MyriadColors in the past who has certainly experienced it also. It’s glaringly obvious on the low dpk drops. I’m fairly confident that it can even occur for non-dpk items.

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You guys want BBs but don’t want to put the effort with friends to get them :\

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That’s a sound argument, and in all honesty, multiple people hunting on the same ground is actualy better in the long run: Monsters die quicker, drops come by quicker. Even is not all of the drops go to you, I agree is still a faster alternative (unless you can already kill everything just as fast by yourself).

What about this part then?
“Yuri: I see. I see. Then can you tell me – when does this top-down system reset?
P: Haha! When the item drops, of course! :smiley:
Yuri: Ah-ha! I almost forgot that this top-down system is all about counting. Well then, is it bound user-wise? Or map-wise?
P: It’s a secret but… it’s bound map-wise. For example, if there is a monster with 500 DPK on Map Z and User A kills 100 monsters on channel 1 while User B kills 100 monsters on channel 2, both players have a 1/300 chance of an item drop.”

Map wise, and countdown reseting once the item drops. I don’t see them writing so terrible English as to lead me into disbelieving this. I actually thought that by “We want to avoid this problem with the new system” they meant something along the lines ‘It’s basically impossible that you miss the drop when it’s calculated repeteadly over factors of 1/10 - 1/2’ so someone can’t just come and get it at the last moment. MAYBE, as suggested by your data, there are two separate counters for awarding the drop, one somehow including the individual player. I’m yet again taken aback by Oracle’s interactions however, if Clairvoyance reveals an item, any character (even those outside the Oracle’s party and who were not present at the moment of using the skill) can get that sure drop from the monster; unless the skill fixes a drop on a monster bypassing the entire system… It’s too weird an option.

PD: Hi Awoooo~!

I don’t think this says “when the drop resets, it resets for all players on the map”.

I think it resets for that player, while other players retain their contribution to the DPK.

So. Using the example from the above. If User A gets the drop. Their contribution drops to 0. The difficulty of the drop increases to 1/400 instead of 1/300. User B keeps their 100 contribution, and they keep it until they get a drop.

It is worded confusingly and contradicts the prior statement. However, I think the prior statement that their intention is for things to be fair and that the system allowing for stealing is bad is a very clear statement. I’m inclined to believe the clear statement over the confusing statement.

When the article was written however, obviously everyone jumped to the worst possible conclusion rather than analyse the fact that the article contradicts itself.

I still think there’s slightly more to the assessment of the system that I have, because the system I have in my head is incredibly open to abuse. However, perhaps that is the reason they seek to be somewhat quiet about the specific details of the system.

Personally I think they should drop DPK entirely on all maps. Put the DPK-competition system on only a few maps, and make those maps open-pvp. A competitive DPK system would work in an environment where players also feel like they can fight each other properly for the drops.

I am not trying to defend IMC or OP.

I think everyone has some stupid concept of “rewards” and “penalty”.

He says the winners were people who took advantage (knowingly or otherwise) the DPK bug and got to keep items and got the rewards.

To be honest with you, I would give up all the rewards I got, most of which I’ll probably let rot in inventory because of their time limits, to have been able to play that weekend, which I had planned to play with some people in advance. We were getting ready and I went to fire up ToS and was blocked. An entire weekend. The “Compensation” (Not a fucking reward, people, COMPENSATION FOR A LOSS) wasn’t all that impressive to me. I still have over 30 tomes from Early Access I haven’t used, so what is all this 14 day crap to me?

Everyone is going to have their own differing opinions about this, but I will put my foot down and say anyone who is whining about this is acting like a spoiled child who is jealous of what other children got. Why can’t people just play the damn game without trying to look in everyone else’s inventory just looking for something to whine about?

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The real victim is IMC.
Someone needs to buy IMC to save IMC from IMC.

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Indeed. Btw, I feel sorry for the art deparment, they did such a wonderful job with this game, they deserve better.

Hmm, that system you describe can actually be tested though. If no person loses their contribution upon obtaining a drop, then testing on items with know DPK can yield pretty accurate numbers. Like, take for a example a 500 DPK item. Hunt for it with a friend and keep record of how many monsters each of you is killing, and after the item drops for one of you see whether or not the other person can still obtain it too with relative ease. Over a few repeats, the pattern should arise to answer the hypothesis.

Oh, and how do you think can that system be abused? It sounds quite fair the way you put it to be honest. By the way, you keep ignoring my explanation on Oracle skills. What do you think about those interactions?

In a 500DPK map a person could get 200 kills on the map then just sit there afk, making the drop 1/300 for everyone else.

That’s partly why I think there is more to the system, because it’s a very obvious way to abuse it and there must be some sort of safeguard in place.

On top of these issues, we also have very little idea about when a player’s DPK is lost. Do daily resets affect our personal contribution on a map? Do the weeklies? Could personal DPK reset hourly? Or every 4 hours perhaps, like boss spawns?

Lots of open-ended questions and possibilities that could skew testing. To be honest, 4hours strikes me as a good idea to limit the above kind of abuse I mentioned. If any of the time-based reset ideas are true it would account for unusual occurrences such as not getting a drop. They are very difficult to prove though.

Individual DPK might not even function this way. It could be assigned via party, like worldboss parties and the way they reward parties based on 1 player’s dps. The whole party could be sharing a DPK counter. So I would suggest that if you/others test it, you do so outside of a party.

Citation needed.

This is called confirmation bias. When it works how I think it does, it’s intended. When it doesn’t, it’s just a bug.

I’ve farmed the ■■■■ out of most items in the game and it’s been my experience that my droprates are consistently better when nobody is competing. Unless what you’re suggesting is a VERY recent change I find it hard to believe.

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You yourself said that the “individual contribution” (concept I’m not entirely convinced of even existing yet) would reset upon item drop. So, regardless of you having killed 200 and got a rate of 1/300 for yourself, others would not get that benefit since their contribution is still 0. It’s impossible according to your own theory, because otherwise when someone drops an item their DPK rate would not go back to 1/500, but instead to 1/300 since your contribution would still apply (Regarding your explanation only). Or would it be necessary for a third person to come and bump up the drop rate again for the second person (the one who’s supposed to be at 0)? And how would that third person’s contribution fare with yours? Say 5 people come about, each kill 100 monsters and get their drop; you’ve not killed any monster so your rate should be 1/1 and have the drop guaranteed? I invite you to test it yourself, it does not work like that. I’m entirely open to believe there’s some kind of individual factor in the DPK equation, but can also assure that it’s not as fair and generous as that.

Eris pads her chest.

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First of all I find it hard to be competitive on a game that's so ridiculously forceful that it lowkey forces people to be casual to actually enjoy it.

Second of all, say if you had actually abused it OP, and then you became apart of the 200+ accounts that actually were held back for longer screening, you’d be complaining even moreso that you were innocent in all this; or that IMC should have never done it.

Third of all, if you’re actually whining this hard about getting an in-game item, how much work have you actually put into it? I legitimately only got my first earned Petamion yesterday. I find people who actually wanted their BBs and Sissels, earn them and make them.

And lastly, why are we being salty of people who literally dodged the ban zone? They aren’t rewarding people for not getting banned; like most competitive people want you to believe. What IMC tried to do was to still coerce people who were turned off by the whole experience to still play the game. That it was actually their fault, and they aren’t above literally giving free money and boatloads of valuable to those both in and out of the whole ordeal. I do think IMC went overboard in giving free things out, but they wanted to be overly generous. Supremely infact.
Damn, I wish we got this level of compensation for all the /pmp channel crashing abuse and the 10-week long Cutscene bug that made party play impossible. I don’t even thing we got anything for either of those issues.

Confirmation bias works in all directions though Goat. All sides of this discussion put things forward that do not make complete sense, out of absolute necessity. We can not, and will not have clear and full information on this, we do not correctly understand the system which is why both sides do the same thing. Proposing theories for why outlying situations occur that do not match the proposed system.

As for the recency. The newer dpk has been in place for 3-4 weeks.

What might be bugs and what might not be? Who knows. We’ve just had a very clear and exceptionally high profile demonstration that the system has bugs.

I fear the theory doesn’t work.
I farmed more than 240 Galok for about 3 hours in channels which had between 6 and 11 charact… bots. Not a single BB dropped… basically I lost 3 hour of my life :confused:

However we still gained something! @STAFF_Letitia @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Yuri @STAFF_Amy, here it is a quick list of bots which probably has my BB. can you please check them?

Raiio
Latere
Haiey
Worei
Sdgew
Nveetj
Ioay
Suiby
Wh1skaS
Gloomye

I’m waiting for good news :slight_smile:

Candido, esse cara que fez o POST acabou de escrever que você merece ser expulso sem qualquer compensação, e que é uma injustiça ele não receber as compensações que voce pode receber se sua conta voltar ao normal.

Você não sabe ler inglês não? Esse cara acabou de falar que é pra você se ferrar e que não merece compensação. Acorda. Não é no mesmo barco.


Translation
Candido, this guy who made this POST just wrote about how you diserve to be punished instead of rewarded in case your account get back to normal.
Its not the same boat, he just want you to go to hell since your account is blocked.

Its not the same boat, its the oposite boat.

kim : It never happened.

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