Tree of Savior Forum

The problem with nerfing everything

Problem with people talking about nerfing a class now is that we don’t have the new card system yet. We have yet to see how classes fare with that new system but the damage output should be far less in glassmole/chap area. Classes considered balanced now may turn preety garbage and will need buff.Then what’s at the bottom of the rankings may turn decent or worse and will still probably need a buff. Then classes considered that are so meta with 8 chaps/glassmoles should feel the nerf in burst output which is huge in ET and world bossing but they will still be decent as they have a strong kit anyway.

The main problem - kids nowaday don’t know how to adapt. They prefer to whine and cry.

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The only thing about Doppel that needs a nerf, in my opinion, is Punish.

Cyclone is alright. Requires Pain Barrier to be used effectively in some scenarios. Can be dangerous to use since you are locked out of other abilities/options during cyclone, aside from moving a small amount. Saving grace for this ability is definitely the overheat and number of hits. Would say Cyclone is A+ tier

Redel is very strong, but has a very small/restricted hitbox. Bad against mobile targets. Fast damage and can be jump-cancelled. No overheat. A+ tier ability.

Zornhau is good and has a nice hitbox and range and hits fast with a low cooldown. Might only be 2 true hits (1 from base, and 1 for additional fake hits). No overheat, but reasonable cooldown. Solid A+ tier ability.

Zucken is pretty mediocre. Its hitbox is slightly better than Redel, but the damage is much lower, even with the attribute. C-tier ability.

Mordschlag is mediocre most of the time. Might be good in PvP, but in PvE it is relatively mediocre compared to other options available in the Doppel tree. C-tier in PvE, cant say how effective it is in PvP since I don’t care for PvP.

Deeds of Valor practically gives +66 enhance attribute points to all damaging skills at level 15 at the cost of taking some extra damage. Futureproof for sure. S-tier without a doubt.

Zwerchhau is basically a budget Barbarian’s Cleave effect, but without overheats and much higher cooldown. Its range is its saving grace. B-tier

Sturtzhau is a solid ability with a relatively flexible hitbox and has an overheat. A-tier

DPE is a 1-2 point wonder ability for blue/silver/gold mobs. D tier in most cases, but S-tier when it counts.

Punish… is just ridiculous. The earthquake attribute and the way it works is just way too good. Can easily solo a lot of content so long as the mobs you are fighting can be knocked down. SS-tier without question.

Doppel has a lot of good abilities, but the one that stands out is definitely Punish with the earthquake attribute. I think that definitely needs to be scaled down in power in some way or another.

I think its appropriate for a C3 class to have 2-3 solid S-tier abilities. Since DPE and DoV are defining features of the Doppel, they should remain unchanged. So power should be taken out of other abilities, such as Punish.

People need to keep in mind that classes like Dragoon/PD/etc might end up getting C3 abilities/effects in the same way that Doppel C3 got. So while Doppel is the strongest now, that may not be the case for R9.

It is known, that buffing everything is always better than nerfing.

The simple strategy is:

  • Things that get buffed leave a better impression on the player.

  • Everything can be balanced with buffing too, if everything gets buffed so that it is balanced again, players will have the impression of progression more than with nerfs.

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