Tree of Savior Forum

TankStriker - Is this build good?

Class and Rank Swordsman
#34

even at 45 sec cooldown, cyclone is huge damage. if doppel goes good in your plan, and you don’t take something different for your ideals, cyclone gets maxed for whatever circle of doppel you go to. period.

plus keep in mind pass and cooldown statue supports negate some of the issues with cooldowns. BUT even so, 45 sec isnt bad for 2 overheat, especially since most skills barb/corsair (my swordie’s main skills for r1-6) have almost 30sec cd. even vs 2 overheat, 1 cast of cyclone blows everything i have but hexen dropper out of the water.

#35

Yeap. no doubt about that. lets not forget to factor in DoV too before using Cyclone. Cyclone can be fully taken advantage while High Guard is on cooldown. it definitely won’t be used during Bursting Phase as its all purely for strike damage. So i think it does go pretty well with the build i planned so far.

#36

oh and about the other stuff. don’t worry about fencer, it changes your build plan. fencer should be used in a fencer-focused build imo, not in yours or a doppel focused build.

gung ho, ya not worth late game. I already only use guard attributed simply for evasion bonus despite damage reduction by small amount. hoplite finestra yes is good, but spears are a whole different ballpark than what we are talking about here.

DoV even at 1 stack is good enough to use the ability, don’t fret stacking issues much. the more you stack, the more icing on your cake :slight_smile:

stats. that spread is imo awful. way way way too much con, overkill. need maybe 50-75 after gear and plate mastery to reach 20k hp by 280, for dps 25k hp is safe too. for tanking of course you sacrifice much more damage from stats than you gain from increased hp. I would say, just don’t plan on being a true meatshield if you want damage too, which the idea of this build is centered on a damage combo while keeping up defensive buffs and a shield.

Str/Dex ratio is what is important here after you find a minimum con for hp. I like 2:1 in favor of str, gives okay str while giving okay enough dex for a decent crit rate and evasion prior to figuring in gear, plus with enough party support on buffs you can even drop crit rate from gear for more raw damage or crit attack. in a build like this, dex at decent amounts probably will be good for you just for extra survival, but low enough base damages that str will probably scale better.

at 2:1 str/dex, my swordie is 201, 15 plate mastery, 31 con with gear included. 16k hp. more than 250 str and almost 100 dex (but points invested are 2:1 – 138 in str and 69 in dex) but also i did put a tiny bit into spr for a bit more max sp before potting (most boss fights ive done, i don’t have to pot midfight, even sometimes on full last room of mission, this does save me money by a bit) and a tiny bit of magic defense.

#37

I agree, even lvl 5 DoV is a good buff, and cyclone is really great also.

But with the actual max rank 7, and because Rod c3 (between 30% to 100% more base damage on core skills and one more strike buff and a lvl 5 skill with 1300 base damage) is at same step than dopple c1, that lead us to the choice dopple c1 vs :

  • hop c2: add pierce damages and pierce weakness + hybrid skill pierce/strike + crit + Block + stab as a filler
  • Barb c2: 2 strike skills
  • Sword c2 (c3 if removing pelt c1 but OP want some tank): utility (stun, cc immun, etc…)
  • Pelt c3: more base damage on umbo and rim + the remove armor skill

So, many possible path here, with all pro and con, but I can’t think the dopple c1 will be better at the end.

Obviously it’s in case we agree pelt c2 doesn’t provide anything without pelt c3 and Rod c3 > ROD c2 + dopple c1

#38

I disagree, Doppel 2 is the best choice here imo. but rode3 doppel 1 is okay i guess.

he wanted high guard attributes as a combo to be a focus of the build, pelt 2 or 3 required here.

he wanted rodelero skills as defense/offense foundation on top of pelt. so rodelero of any ranks here. this makes at least 4 ranks already set.

so far, r5 choice best option is most likely rodelero 2 due to slithering as furthering his defense + offense buffer skillset. alternative for less defensive and more buffing later ranks assuming kToS buffs hit is barb 1.

r6 is variable. rodelero 3 builds on what he has atm, and would pair best with doppel 1 at r7. but, i don’t think this is even close to the best damage he could get out of rank 6-7.

doppel 1 and 2 is likely the most damage when comparing options, deeds cyclone and even mordschlag are too strong for this build to skip. when high guard is off, cyclone is overwhelming. when it is on, deeds helps mitigate the high guard damage penalty – and the build alleviates some of the issues of requiring being hurt to stack deeds, as you have more defensive options than a normal doppel build. the tricky part is getting the strike buffs up and making sure you have mordschlag ready to go and used with high guard preferably not on penalizing your damage.

fencer is a lower damage variant due to poor synergy. high guard damage penalty cant completely be negated by popping skills around using high guard combo, as much of fencer damage is 0cd skills you basically spam. thats 30sec of your max damage being halved. plus, you don’t gain worthwhile strike damage.

shinobi is shinobi, is a different style variant with doppel 1/shinobi being the prime picks here at 6-7. free cloakings can add survival, as can the defensive skill. high burst damage. con here is the clones – you dont have anything they can copy that is worthwhile outside of kunai, and they hurt your ability to tank. either way, its great pairing for dpsing outside of high guard penalty.

imo dragoon isnt worthwhile unless you went hop/cata prior anyways.

the main ideals for the dps rotations are to pop everything not related to your high guard and strike comboing, then pop everything related to high guard, and try if possible to have mordschlags or other strike hits that arent buffed by high guard attribute go off without high guard on but other strike buffs active. as long as high guard is not active, once stuff comes back up, continue popping skills in the same priority order.

#39

Ehhh…sorry folks. i need to go back to the drawing board. Apparently there are quite a lot of skill changes for Rodelero according to this link: [ Swordsman Changelog ] Swordsman changes from kTOS and iTOS

So…lol!! OMG! Rodelero is so buffed!

#40

I think everything you are focusing on still applies, as with everything ive mentioned for NON-Rode stuff.

#41

On a quick glance. yes. but damn! Targe Smash & Slithering just got much less CD. And now i have to consider getting Shooting Star possibly MAX!

And…shield shoving. OMGG!

#42

Just a quick check on Cyclone because now i am definitely maxing Shooting Star and it is potentially like Hexen Dropper. So i can lose 2 points from Mordschlag, max Cyclone and make DPE lv2 at least.

At Lv10 Cyclone, Duration is 5.5secs. So does that means on a full run on 1 use, it hits for a total of at least 15 hits?

#43

at least 16 hits. granted anything with a time-based multihit affect may lose 1 or 2 hits if you have bad ping or hit a ping spike.

1 Like
#44

Just a suggestion: Wait for KTOS buffs to hit before leveling a rodelero, right now rodelero is painfully boring.

1 Like
#45

that’s the plan! :smiley:
oh and latest Ktos patch/update says that STR now adds to block penetration. woot!

#46

I’d recommend you getting it atleast to R5 before the update.

As matheuscrosara mentioned rodelero alone is indeed boring (and also really SP hungry), but you can level it up really easily as long as you have sacrament on :wink:

@Edit

Have you watched this video before?

1 Like
#47

wow…that is really informative! Thanks!
And man…that STR! 33 only! and goes to show DEX isn’t the way to go. hardly saw any crit. i wonder what kind of equipment this player has on his char though.

#48

This one shows both Slithering and High Kick applied.

1 Like
#49

Thanks for the videos. Just to clarify in case people watch them both and fail to see something - throughout the 2 videos, the player didn’t show us the damage of a Lv15 Targe Smash (+Lv30 attribute) alone, without the debuffs of Slithering and High Kick. He only tried out Targe Smash with each debuff and then both debuffs together in the 2 videos. Never once without the debuffs.

After some calculation, the maths (damage) is right. his physical damage from the character sheet is only 420+ (which also already includes his equipments, etc). So almost all of the damage is coming from his Targe Smash and either of the 2 debuffs (or both).

Alright so if i am to do the Maths for Targe Smash with some variables:

Scenario:
(1) Lv280 Rank 7 Swordsman with no invested stats = phyatk: 292
(2) against Cloth-Armored enemies
(3) One use of Targe Smash
(4) Enemy’s defense ignored
(5) Max Slithering’s Addtional Damage Attribute
(6) Lv15 Targe Smash (Reminder: Hits once)

With the above

– Lv15: 1350 (skill atk)
– Attacking an enemy: 1350 + 292 = 1642 (dmg)
– With Slithering & HighKick debuffs: 1642 + (1642 + 1642) = 4926 (dmg)

+ Lv100 Enhance

– Lv15 with Lv100 Enhance Attribute: 2700 (skill atk)
– Attacking an enemy: 2700 + 292 = 2992 (dmg)
– With Slithering & HighKick debuffs: 2992 + (2992 + 2992) = 8976 (dmg)

+ Lv100 Enhance, Lv5 DoV

– Lv5 DoV: 292 + (50% of 292) = 438 (phy atk)
– Attacking an enemy: 2700 + 438 = 3138 (dmg)
– With Slithering & HighKick debuffs: 3138 + (3138 + 3138) = 9414 (dmg)

+ Lv100 Enhance, Lv5 DoV, Critical Hit

– Critical hit: 9414 x 1.5 = 14121 (dmg)

+ Lv100 Enhance, Lv5 DoV, Critical Hit, 3 Overheat

– 3 times of Targe Smash: 14121 x 3 = 42363 (dmg)

I will stop here for now because i don’t exactly know how and where the other modifiers/variables fit into the formula. i might update it. So just take note of the following that are missing from the above:

(A) Equipments (Armor, Weapon, Shield, Rings, etc)
(B) Targe Smash: Frozen Stone Attribute (+100% skill atk)
© Critical Dmg
(D) GungHo, Concentrate, Simony Scolls, etc.
(E) Elemental Attack
(F) Extra Attack (i.e. Sacrament, Cafrisun, etc)
(G) Armor Type weakness (For ‘Strike’, -25% to Leather/Ghost, +50% to Plate)
(H) AOE Ratio - Max number of enemies/targets able to hit.
(I) Wizard: Lethargy (+100% strike damage)
(*) Rank 8 Scenario (calculating with Lv10 DoV)

It would be nice to find out a Common Scenario, which is what most players will end up being in, what most players will most likely experience with most of the time. Not just calculating what is the BEST maximum damage achievable. Because that kind of scenario…is very very unlikely to happen.

In a Common Scenario on a single target, im thinking that it is easily possible to achieve >50 000 total damage done from just this skill alone. And even possible to achieve >100 000 if more conditions are favorable. Important for bosses as their HP is the highest throughout the game.

As a reminder, this is just calculating for Targe Smash. There are 5 other Strike-Type Skills that i still have to look into: Umbo Blow, Rim Blow, Shield Shoving, Shooting Star, Mordschlag.

#50

lol and wizard lethargy attribute for 100% more damage to strike :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
#51

How about pelt c1 rode c3 fencer c2? Fencer have a very strong strike skill

#52

because strike debuff uptime is short, and DoV lvl 5 will only provide short amount of Pattk, maybe pelt 3 rod 3 with high guard lvl 1 is the good way to have the best amount of dammage in one strike.
umbo and rim blow base damages during high guard are 1700 (3400 with attribute lvl 100) and you have 4 activations (2*2).

But is it possible to reach at least 50% crit chance ?

#53

@YuseiXyan

Sorry for the 1-2 days late reply. Busy researching and other stuff.

Regarding fencer, hoplite and DoV stacks…okay :thumbsup:. Got it.

Stats wise, after having given much thought about this build, i’m thinking of focusing mainly on STR:CON and leaving out DEX.

reason is because with this build, blocking with a shield will literally be the main ‘meatshield’ for all physical attacks (both melee and range). Since magical attacks cannot be blocked or evaded, the amount of HP one has will be for that purpose - to absorb magical dmg. I understand that it is impossible to block 100% 24/7. But it should be at least…most of the time.

So back to stats, i’m now thinking ‘3.5 : 1’ for STR:CON. So at Lv280 Rank7 with 35 bonus stats, 225 into STR and 89 into CON. 750 phy atk is nice as a base. it will be a difference of 200 from a PURE STR build. Of course, evasion is not completely out of the picture. there’s 286 evasion and if the situation calls for it, i will pop Guardian for the +18% Evasion. And if im desperate, i will be popping Slithering, Pain Barrier, High Guard and manually Guarding as well. Anything else to pop!? :joy:. In that situation, i will be praying that the shield doesn’t break!!!

Reason why i want to be blocking more than evading is because of 2 debuffs: stagger and iron fist (-84 phydef for 60secs). Blocking will become a lot more purposeful instead of just invalidating all incoming physical damage. i wouldn’t know how well it will play out but that’s the idea…for a start. putting points into CON raises block too. With all the additional block from Peltasta Class Attributes and from skills too, i thought why not raise the bar (blocking) even higher? And with the latest patch/update from kTOS, STR now adds to block penetration. With this build, i think i should be safe from PURE STR players penetrating my blocking. :cold_sweat:

i do not know how the formula works. But at the end of the day, you either block or evade an attack. you can’t do both at the same time for 1 attack. Also PVP and GVG wise, many people are going after this ring. Soooo…blocking doesn’t trigger that right?? only evading right?? :laughing:

Okay! so this leave us with one concerning issue: Critical Hit. I will be responding to that at the bottom below, because other people have raised that concern too.

@Firstookami @YuseiXyan

regarding choosing other classes at certain ranks.

I am actually comfortable (or rather leaning more towards) choosing Doppel at R6 instead of R7. i see no urgency or a real need to pick Rodelero C3 at R6. Because the benefits of Doppel C1 is FAR MORE than Rodelero C3. So get it first the moment you can. As for Doppel C1 vs Hop, Barb, Sword, Pelt…let’s look at each of the skills that Doppel has (except Punish):

DoV – +50% atk. I’m going for 3.5 STR:1 CON ratio. Sorry for not saying this earlier but i was still researching and considering. So every attack, every dmg-dealing skill will increase! phydef -50%? No problem! Block them!
Mordschlag – its a decent Strike-type skill. BUT, it guarantees a critical hit on all cloth-armored enemies and has 2 overheats.
DPE – hit a jackpot or found a treasure chest, James from pokemon appears and says “Make it Double!”. White, Blue or Gold glowing monsters…or bosses…adventuring just got way more fun with this.
Cyclone – C :vulcan:cl :o:ne :cloud_tornado:

Come on! How does any other class beat all 4 of that!? Its a mega-awesome package! If i am to pick Rodelero C3 at R6, its just plain boring “yay more strike dmg!”. but i will need it if i want to climb further up the DPS-Strike Ladder. No way am i skipping Doppel. Its a must have.

So C1 Doppel vs Hop, Barb, Sword, Pelt…nope. Doppel still wins overall. As for why Pelt C2, the only reason is because of Umbo Blow and Rim Blow. Majority of the players are saying its not worth it in the end even with High Guard. BUT with this DPS-Striker Build, it can be a different story. So i am exploring and looking into something that majority of the people disagrees with and digging deep into the mechanics and formula surrounding these 3 skills. Shall let you know the results soon! :grin:

As for the other classes being mentioned, pretty much agree on every point about shinobi, dragoon and fencer. Thanks for the interesting write up. :thumbsup:

@summerlurve

Attaque.C is really nice. Also with its 8secs CD. But just for that nope. if Umbo Blow and Rim Blow (empowered by High Guard) turns out to be truly horrible and i have to repick a class to replace Pelt C2, i would rather choose Doppel C2.

@Firstookami

10secs is pretty decent for bursting. But yea…it may not be enough time for the number of skills i have to use in that period of time. As for the maths for both Umbo Blow and Rim Blow, i will have a look at it soon.

Crit Chance! yes…right at the very beginning of planning this build, i too was thinking that it would be nice to at least have 50% Crit Chance as a minimum. But i have no idea how the formula works. As of now, majority of the consensus says its like this: Critical Rate * (42/Level of Char).

So to have 50% Crit Chance at Lv280, i would need about 333 Critical Rate. It is achievable with 3 Lv10 Diamond Gems. But that requires ton of materials. Well…something to work towards to for an Epic Long-Term Goal. :laughing:. However, having 333 Critical Rate equals to 23% at Lv600. Critical Rate needs to be at 713 for 50% at that level. it would require way too many stat points. And then there’s Critical Resistance. So…im not sure how it will be much much later on higher levels. But i guess we can expect some awesome gears at Lv600 to help cover that :sunglasses:. Lets look forward to that! :laughing: