Tree of Savior Forum

Swordies will be buffed, aren't you thankful?

I see. I finally think I comprehend what you’re trying to say.

I still believe that buffs should scale in some way and not be flat, but I also agree with you that the identity of a class should be preserved and relevant even at higher ranks.

The only way to attain what you’re stating is to use coefficients for skills as opposed to flat values that we currently have, and to make it such that any skills, even R1 skills, remain relevant in the future. If we make the flat value of skills all similar throughout R1-R10, identity could also be preserved while keeping ever class relevant, but it then requires reworking multi-hit formulas and making abilities feel unique between one another. Coefficient-scaling skills just seems like a better approach to achieve this.

I am completely for the idea of coefficient-based skills and preserved identity of a given class choice that remains relevant at all levels of play. Unfortunately, IMC seems to be steering towards the direction of making R6+ classes the “most relevant”, yet fail to do so in a balanced way between Swordsman/Archer/Wizard trees.

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Yes and no.
Lets take Seism for instance.
This skill has a 1.7x modifier built into it.
This does not compare to Fireball level 15’s 15 hits at all.
However Seism stuns.
Barbarian has stuns and while the damage of its wanes as enemy health increases, the value of this skill can stretch further then that because its well designed by having more to it then just raw damage. It fits a purpose within the Barbarians kit and does it well.

Fireball is a raw straight dps skill, and it does that well.
I still make liberal usage of it on high health enemies because 15 (given 30 given overheat)applications of my Magic attack, is still solid damage individual damage (same deal with Multi-shot).

Carter Strike is a pushback, and does that well while trying to reward you for pushing back enemies successfully this is part of the Highlanders identity.
Its actually a very good skill that you can find use for later on, but at the same time because of the way it cast time increases per level for higher level casts of it, further skill investment in it often doesn’t make sense. You don’t have time to sit there and charge it, nor is it efficient to do so. Good skill but little value in leveling it.

Coefficients don’t entirely work given the health scaling of this game. Ah to be more precise, the way they’ve put health in this game screws it up.
Eg.
Whats inherently wrong with a 1x multiplier + base?
Nothing, however then Monster health doubles, then doubles again and doubles again and suddenly there is a problem with this 1x multiplier in comparison to moves with 15 or 30 hits.
They let the expectations to deal with monsters health jump extremely hard but what skill has sufficient modifiers or bases to these moves are inconsistent, then there’s the time consideration.
Flame Ground is still a really strong DPS skill, in terms of raw damage, but if it could do all of its damage in the first 10 seconds after its cast like Frost Ground then it would be relevant. No one wants a mob to live 25-30 seconds that Flame ground needs to do its full damage.

Tl;dr. The games damage expectations are wonky, because of how health jumps it makes giving a general multiplier that works from rank 1 skills to r7 beyond rather difficult
Part of why I think skills of X rank should first and foremost be balanced around the content of the ranks you get those classes because its easier to resolve down the line.
Going down to C1 to make C1 skills or buffs work for R7 while R7 skills don’t even work for R7 is like…what? It would work if we didn’t have these sporadic jumps but we do.

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You can’t compare this game to chess. Chess is a game of mind and because it is a game of mind, the whole game is balanced out. Every side has equal the amount of chess pieces. It only depends on your skill. This is not at all how ToS is made. In ToS you only play one character or chess piece… and if you play with a pawn against a Queen, you have no chance at all. This is said very harsh, but ToS is more or less like that. Of course you are free to choose whoever you want play with but, because of that fact that you can’t redo things, everything should be balanced perfectly. There are so many classes, but it is madness for a single human to test everything for themselves out. That’s also why there has to be “perfect” balance. Chess has an perfect balance, the only thing that makes the game unbalanced is either the lack of skill or having the first move. But as said you can’t compare ToS with chess, I just did it for your understanding. Chess is turn based, ToS is active gameplay. You could discuss this a whole lot more…

well we do have a similarity. swordsman type classes are pawns because against the rest the tower/horse/bishop/queen and kings which is archer/cleric/wizard type classes they have no chance lol

I dunno about that… some of the game design decisions that IMC has made certainly… boggle my mind.

This is not entirly true, yes you lose aggro easier but when you know how to cycle taunt and use skills and aa, even a full con pelt can keep aggro. (Source 240+ full con pelt)

The important thing was the balancing. Everything could possibly boggle someones mind. But the chess game is balanced perfectly out, Tree of Savior on the other hand isn’t at all.

if imc ran chess

where is this buff lol

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Well IMC trolled us and told us in a Q&A that they were testing swordsman buffs in kToS so people thought they were coming here soon… as you can see we were all most gloriously trolled.

Monster said: Yum Yum!! Delicious!!!

well, ktos buffed swordsman, at least 2h sword ones and rodeleros. but u know, we will have it too, “SOON” ( 3 months [?] )

At the rate IMC is working, we’ll see it, hopefully, before World War 3 begins.

jokes aside, now with rank 8 coming and zero sure about swordsman changes. if ktos changes come to itos, i need at least barb 1 in my doppel build. if not, ill stay with highlander and corsair. also, we dont know how is going to be rank 8 so theres nothing i can use to plan my build. so ill probably play other game till they give us some real info or real updates