Tree of Savior Forum

Suggestions on how to improve grinding/leveling (and other info)

Gameplay Feedback Features
#1

[Edited]

So I’m level 164 and I’m pretty much not enjoying leveling right now.

If I try to find a good spot to get exp in, there’s likely other people who will be looking and find that spot and I have to compete with them in order to get exp. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not mad at them for trying to get exp efficiently too. I’m disappointed in the limited options there are for gaining experience at this level.

I’ve decided that i’m pretty much burned out of trying to grind up to the 6th advancement to test things out with it. I may participate in this CBT off and on, but I’m no longer going to put in serious time for leveling, testing, theorycrafting and discovering things.

A lot of people say that there needs to be more channels and more density with mobs, but I think those are just band-aid solutions to the problem. I’m not against these ideas! I just think more needs to be done than just more channels and higher mob density.

Let’s say for example, you find a good spot to get experience in. Someone else runs by and decided to get exp in that spot too because they see how good that spot is. Now you might think “oh we’re both trying to get exp, let’s party up!” but unfortunately you get less exp per member of a party. If the density of the spot is only good enough for one person to clear effectively before mobs respawn, it’s better to continue to farm the spot solo. Currently, Instance dungeons are not an effective solution because the level range between available Instance dungeons is just to wide and there is a lockout in the number of times you can complete a dungeon in a day.

Here are some recommended solutions I thought of based on my experience with the CBT of this game:

  • Make more INSTANCE dungeons (every 10 levels, minimum and some variety of dungeons at similar levels… for example, 3 level 110 dungeons, 3 level 160 dungeons, etc… and I mean dungeons with high hp/elite mobs that give good exp, not cosmetic ones with normal monsters!!!)

  • Remove the lockout of non-cosmetic Instance dungeons

  • Make the rewards from Instance dungeons reduced in drop rate IFF the lockout is removed OR after you’ve run a dungeon x amount of times in a day, the Boss no longer drops a cube for you until the next day [EITHER OF THESE SOLUTIONS WORK!! JUST DON’T LOCK PLAYERS FROM WANTING TO DO DUNGEONS AS AN ALTERNATIVE LOCATION FOR EXP GAINS!!!]

  • Make cosmetic Instance dungeons accessible at level 10 and scale according to the average character level (0 boss drops after x amount of runs)

  • Remove the exp penalty per additional party member in groups. I never want to feel angry at the fact that there’s someone in the party limiting the exp and we’d be better off without the extra person. This is an MMO… ENCOURAGE players to play together!!!

  • More channels and better mob density, especially on higher level maps!

  • Better exp scaling for higher level mobs

  • “murder-maps” with high HP mobs (maybe mini-boss mobs) that hit fairly hard and require party coordination to kill groups of them, and of course dramatically increased experience per mob to make doings these maps worthwhile.

Here is some of my feedback in regards to classes, skills and attributes:

  • Make more enticing passive attributes. Archer C2 (+25% increased crit rate), Wizard C3 (+50% magic damage), Peltasta C1 (+50% defense while guarding, and +18% evade with Guardian active) and Highlander C1 (+50% improved critical attack with 2h) are good examples, especially Archer C2 and Wizard C3. The passives should be universal, so Highlander C1 passive could be +25% improved critical attack for melee weapons and an additional +25% for 2h so players will consider choosing Highlander C1 for improved critical. These kind of attributes that have synergy or potential with other classes [within the same class tree, of course] need to be more common, especially in higher circles of classes!

  • Please use Multiplicative instead of Flat scaling stats. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who isn’t a major fan of Flat-scaling stats. I know this has been said time and time again, but please remove the flat-scaling and implement coefficients based on STR, DEX, INT, SPR, CON and/or Atk, Magic Atk, etc. I’d also like to see abilities like Blessing, Concentrate, Sacrament, etc scale based off of INT/STR as opposed to being limited to a flat amount of damage.

3 Likes
#2

Actually u get an XP bonus when you party with more people, you will notice in this game people that duo/full party level fast from 0-160 than those that dont. So by increasing the denisty and respawn of the mobs you also increase the XP gain. Also, and this is important, classes that overkill with generate MORE xp for the party, and MORE bonus for the party, so its almost require to have 2-3 classes that can overkill effeciently while leveling. And later on we also get doppleganger which will severly increase the XP parties recieve. So yeah by increasing the spawn rate and density on all maps is not just a bandaid fix. It affects so many things in a positive way its kinda the solution for the problems were currently having.

Edit: Also forgot to mention, some classes can also force spawn more mobs into battles for more XP too, from the Archer/Cleric paths. Problem is you dont get those circles till 180+ i think.

#3

The group experience increases but the individual experience a person gets decreases

Which is something I have a problem with because the formula has the expectation of every member being able to kill faster than few members when that isn’t always the case with support roles or people using lower dps builds. Mobs generated in a zone and how quickly a group can kill it compared to fewer people also plays a factor in this calculation.

I personally think that the individual experience decrease per member shouldn’t exist, otherwise groups will eventually min-max the optimal amount of party members for their groups and decline classes/roles that they think will simply gimp their exp gains.

#4

Yes but that problem goes away if there is sufficent mobs to kill, which atm there isnt, except for 1-2 zones.

#5

The problem won’t go away just because there are more mobs. So long as a player feels as if they are getting less exp because their exp bar is not moving as quickly when another person joins their group, they’re going to be against grouping up with more than a certain number of people in certain zones.

Players are already looking at their exp bars in instance dungeons and outside and looking at their rate gains solo versus in a group. It’s not hard to see how this will be problematic at higher levels when players decide on their overall role and the difference in dps between those roles becomes more apparent.

#6

Didnt you do the math? More mobs fixes the problem you should actually read the things you linked, someone does the math for u later in the very reddit post you linked.
Yes u get less XP per mob, but the group kills FAR more mobs faster and quicker than you could kill alone.

For a theory example, you kill 1 mob, u get 100 xp solo, 48 xp while in a group.
But solo you just get the 100xp, in a group at the same time 5 other mobs are killed, so you recieve 48x5. Which is 240 xp in the same time frame as you would obtain killing alone. This is just a theory example. Some classes can AOE huge mobs down solo, but they have downtime still, a group almost never has downtime will killing. Even in the post you linked this is explained. So you ADD more mobs, FASTER respawns, and group XP becomes better and better. THEN you add the factor which has yet to be mentioned, which is OVERKILLS. This inflates the XP by groups gained EVEN further. Group XP is good, this is why most farming later ingame is done in groups. Perhaps you never reached that stage but its true.

#7

I’d like stronger mobs that are worth more xp instead of more mobs. AOE a bunch of weak mobs is not as fun to me. Strong enough that you cant take on a bunch of them because you will die.

#8

“Didnt you do the math? More mobs fixes the problem you should actually read the things you linked, someone does the math for u later in the very reddit post you linked.
Yes u get less XP per mob, but the group kills FAR more mobs faster and quicker than you could kill alone.”

I’ll try to explain to you, yet again, why this is problematic.

If you are not in a group, you’re getting 100% experience from the monster. it’s only worth it to invite someone into your group if they kill/contribute enough to compensate for the experience penalty you suffer by being grouped. It’s not an opinion that there is a penalty, it is there and unless the person contributes enough to compensate for the penalty, you lose.

“OVERKILLS”

Really? You’re going to try to bring Overkills into the argument? That only strengthens my point that classes that are added to the group that can’t overkill are effectively gimping the experience gain of someone that can overkill on their own.

“Perhaps you never reached that stage but its true.”

I’ve grouped plenty of times on my way to 164, and I’ve been in groups that decided it was not in their best interest to add more people because it would decrease exp gain for each individual member (we were killing mobs fast enough with our group of 3), which further explains why exp penalty in party is bad design in a MMO.

I can keep repeating myself, over and over as to why it’s bad design for an MMO where not everyone has an optimal build for mobbing and you will keep trying to defend your point by using best-case scenario examples for party dps. Please keep bringing up those best-case scenarios because that’s definitely always the case, right guys?

#9

Yes and more mobs means more XP. Hence why its the fix for the situation because if there is enough mobs to outweight the negative effects the problem goes away, this is why demon farm spots are full of 5 man groups, because the respawn in that area is sufficient to keep grinding with a full party, CURRENTLY alot of places cant do that because there isnt enough mobs. ADD alot more mobs this problem goes away, its really simple.

#10

AMEN!

I hate this flat-scaling of Stats.

%/Multiplicative All the way!!