Try when you get a level 75 weapon with some upgrades too. Besides the level 20+ attribute.
If you keep Thrust at level 1, but your base + weapon attack get much higher, it will be easier to see.
Just a question from someone who does not understand: are you saying that DEX is %? Like Evasion and Critical Rate? I’m asking this because I was running a full DEX Archer in the start of the game and he wasn’t able to crit everytime. I AM just asking, and sorry if I can’t contribute more.
No. Critical (when hits) increase the damage dealt by 50%. If you have 100% critical, basically your damage is increased by 50%.
But Dex is only valuable at late game when you have hundreds, at lower level it doesn’t have much impact on critical.
Let people get to lvl 400~600 before complaining it will go wrong.
Sorry, no. People can’t even get that far yet, and by the time they can IMC will already have produced so much more content revolving around the current streamlined maths that turning back and reviewing the formulae will be all the more difficult.
give IMC some credit
But I do give them credit. I’m not here because I hate the game, I’m here because I love the game and I want to see it prosper. This isn’t to be taken emotionally, this is objective criticism. The current damage formula is going to be a game-breaker for a lot people, myself included, if it isn’t changed before launch. A lot of the current balancing complaints have to do with this. The sooner they get this out of the way the better.
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Thanks. Now I have two more questions:
- Critical Damage scales with STR, right? It would not be nice to have STR and DEX?
- Is there any Critical Resistence by status? If yes, which onew give it?
ok so then str was nerfed from last beta it used to give 2 thats good to know.
did you read this post carefully? he doesnt take into account monster def which actually climbs up very fast. this also does not account for skill cooldowns which seem short till you run an instance or fight a boss.
actually on top of this they added a stat scaleing by rank for int and str, you get 10% more per rank resulting in a whopping 380+ str compared to 250 something dex if you pump both of them to full
- It scales with STR, but also with level and weapon-based attack. The “critical damage” part of STR is a flat bonus added after the 50% are calculated. You can have STR and DEX, but you may be sacrificing your critical rate to the point it reduces your general dps.
- Yes, CON seems to increase critical resistance vs DEX critical rate. I imagine you would need a lot of it for it to make a significant difference on the full DEX attacker’s crit rate though. This needs to be tested still. You can still reach a very high critical rate against most creatures by going full DEX at high levels, so this hasn’t proven to be much of a problem so far.
i have posted a guide which kinda spells out most of the damage formula so approximations are almost always exact, some skills have hidden modifiers though. but lets take your fireball (assuming you had no magic amp) 309+74 is 383*1.4 = 536 so thats exactly 40% more than your basic attack (matk-mdef) + fireball skill
look at most monsters they dont have much crit resist, i think i checked level 112 monsters and most were around 5-6 crit resist?
That might tip the balance back to STR in higher ranks, perhaps? I’d still like to see skills that scale for various other reasons though.
dont go by what tos base shows, the values are at least a few months behind, its good for an idea but it will mislead you. i showed you how to get the exact number that the game displays in another post but basically your basic attack is matk-mdef so just add the skill damage on top then add % attribute and you get the exact result every time
[quote=“Dynemanti, post:39, topic:104514, full:true”]
did you read this post carefully? he doesnt take into account monster def which actually climbs up very fast. this also does not account for skill cooldowns which seem short till you run an instance or fight a boss.
[/quote]We’re talking about end game characters, you will not have a single skill, you will have several skills and can alternate between them during the cooldowns. Also, defense have little impact on higher levels. Level 200 monsters have around 200-300 def. Wich make little difference when you’re dealing 3000+ damage with critical.
[quote=“Dynemanti, post:40, topic:104514, full:true”]
actually on top of this they added a stat scaleing by rank for int and str, you get 10% more per rank resulting in a whopping 380+ str compared to 250 something dex if you pump both of them to full
[/quote]So what? Your DPS will be lower even if your STR is 130 points higher than your DEX. You might like big number on the status screen, but i prefer higer damage numbers poping from enemies. So the fact that STR have a higher value than DEX is irrelevant if that don’t directly reflect an higher DPS value.
DERP!!
Now it makes sense! Just the “- mdef” was in the wrong place. And actually, this makes DEF more valuable, since it is factored before Attributes % bonus, but skills will never do “1 damage”. Cute design IMC.
Problem solved, I guess?
This still don’t match the results i had, saying that “you level is not high enough” doesn’t means the values are wrong.
ok but the def is taken out before critical calculations. the best skill i can think of to show you what i mean is sisem. it winds up with 1500ish atk fully upgraded which is one of the highest you can get on any skill right now. it also has a bonus 50% hidden modifier built into the skill (i tested this myself) so lets say you have like 400 atk (200 from leavel 200 from an unupgraded weapon) so the raw damage would be 1600 (1500+400-300) then you throw on the 50% mod to get 2400 and crit that for 3600. then lets suppose you have 50% slash you could get 5400 2x every 25(?) seconds now lets take that same build throw in 388 str so basic attacks would be doing 488 damage +50% slash again and we see 732 per swing every .5 or so seconds meaning in the time it takes that to cooldown your getting in 50 or so attacks resulting in 36600 damage. now i know that there are other skills too but also remember that while your auto attacking you can also use skills every now and then for a boost to your dps. the math is a little more complex at this point and finestra can give you 100 dex worth of crit rate so dont forget that or that im not even talking about using corsair’s double weapon attacking. or the fact that while initially we thought blessing was ■■■■ adding like 150+ damage per hit when your attacking 4 times a second (with double weapon) adds a ton.
honestly im not sure what is better but they both seem viable, just look around at streams. we’ve severely underestimated monster def scaling and the power of auto attacks. for pure leveling through mobbing sure crit aoe builds are probably better but i think for boss killing builds auto attacks are gonna pass them up. im working it all out now.
that said right now crit builds are better cause the best equipment isnt out yet and aoe grinding is the fastest way to level. AA builds are limited by their aoe ratios. but if were talking pure dps i think auto attack builds are gonna overtake them in any fight where the skill dex build cant 1 shot the mob.
oh also this doesnt apply to every class either, the only ones that are capible of reaching anywhere near this is corsair with dual weapon and doppel with its deeds of valor. though there is a chance that archers with kneeling and that other self buff might be able to do something but that needs a lot of testing
Ok, so make your tests with level 75 weapon and high level attribute so with can get more frustraded about this later trying to figure out what the kitten happens. 
cause your math was wrong to begin with. you used tos base’s values rather than using your basic attack to pull them from the game itself. those values are off in some cases. they are from just after icbt1 and Flash probably hasnt pulled the new ones yet. the other problem is your saying your “avg atk” which means you didnt follow my steps to get more precise results, you have to remove your equipment your weapon adds attack range and sometimes your gear will too, particularly braclets/rings and necklace. other things like +___ damage against ___ also add in flat values at the end that dont get multiplied.
every single time someone has disputed my results i eventually found out they were using a piece of gear, or leaving out something like +50% slash from their information. not once was i actually wrong so far.
Or possibly instead of abilities being flat damage increases they could be percentages and only specific abilities could crit? That way Dex would favor auto attacks or specific ability builds and strength/int would favor a broader range of abilities and spells.
Or give abilities percentage based stat modifiers as well as flat damage.