Tree of Savior Forum

Squire C3 Poll - Penalty Reduction skill

Here it is: http://strawpoll.me/7412223

To put it simply, I think it’s not only very weak but also very boring… which is pretty disappointing considering it’s a C3 skill. I feel C3 should bring something powerful and/or new and exciting to the class. Penalty reduction is, in my opinion, pretty lame. I’m curious what the general consensus is, though.

To help the thought process, here’s a wiki link listing what an actual squire would do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squire#Jobs

Please do leave your opinion here, as well. I’m curious about ideas and opinions. (I’d like a buff that turns one party member into the Squire’s “Knight”, personally - and buffs just about everything the “Knight” does, even if it debuffs the squire. Anything usable in dungeons would be neat, honestly)

honestly squire should lead to templar because taking 2 ranks in squire makes you alot of damage skills

I like the idea of having a squire buff an ally deemed his “Knight.” It’s a nice role play. Definitely the skill as it is pretty boring, and may be better off as an attribute.

I personally think a mobility skill would be really cool - perhaps a temporary mount. Master squires become knights themselves, so C3 squire having a temporary Knight-like skill would be pretty epic. Also, movement speed is nice for running errands for the knight. Something less boring pls

this is sort of what the squire is intended to be.

there are 4 icon colors for classes:
Red is an offensive class, focusing on various damage dealing abilities.
Blue is a defensive class, with CC and blocking skills, etc
Green is a support class, with lots of buffs and similar abilities
Gold is a utility class, with various skills like repairs and sales.

Squires, a Gold type class, sacrifice combat ability for their functional skills like Armor and Weapon Maintenance, and other features like the ability to run a shop.

basically, for game balance, you lose combat ability but gain the ability to run a shop, and earn money while afk.

I think everyone is aware of that. Doesn’t mean squire C3 should have a very boring and very weak skill


basically you’re saying
“stop making this class be what it is supposed to be!”

just reroll and play something else. you can’t have everything.

Except that’s not at all what anyone is saying. Personally, I love squire regardless of it’s “weakness” in battle. I love the basecamp it can make and the food table/buffs, I played blacksmith in RO so of course I love the repair and weapon buffing abilities, and Arrest is very nice as well (I also happen to think Arrest past level 1 is very under appreciated). A lot of my enjoyment from the class comes from the type of play style it promotes; hanging out in fields grinding. Which, in turn (in my experience) leads to a lot of socializing. I find that to be a great deal of fun in MMOs.

This issue I have is that Penalty Reduction is (in my opinion) boring, not in line with the theme/feel of the class, AND under powered. I don’t mean “weak”, I mean that the ability that this specific class has isn’t as strong as it should be relative to the strengths and weaknesses of this specific class. And also, you know, it’s boring. I don’t think any of it’s other skills are boring because I feel they’re in line with the theme of the class. It seems completely tacked on for no reason.

Let’s look at the skill in detail (at this point in development, at least):

  • Penalty Reduction
    “Reduces penalty from incapable of combat (death)”
    Max level: 5
    -Equipment Durability Penalty -2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / -10%
    -Consumed Silver Penalty -0.4 / 0.8 / 1.2 / 1.6 / -2.0%
    -Consumed Gem Penalty -1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / -5%

First and most important: this skill only works if you die. This does not help to PREVENT death in ANY way. This skill also does not remedy death. It does not revive anyone or even gives a player the option to revive at a cost. This is a major issue with this skill. If everything goes well, this skill is absolutely useless. ALSO, if something bad does happen… this skill doesn’t do much anyway.

Equipment Durability.
It’s so-so. First off, 10% is weak when durability for equipment is in the 30-50 range. This is basically increasing your items’ durability by 3-5 if you die. Otherwise, again, it does nothing to extend the life of your gear’s durability. At the very least this is in line with what the Squire class does, BUT this is already done much better with the Repair skill’s over-repair mechanic… which actually does increase an item’s maximum durability. Regardless of if you die or not.

Consumed Silver Penalty
I keep seeing the argument that players are losing 100k silver on higher level maps, which makes this skill useful. This buff protects two whole percent of that. Two percent of 100k is 2k. You’re saving two thousand silver. That’s… not a lot. At all. You’re going to have to die a LOT for that to add up over time. And if you’re dying very often, let’s face it: something is wrong in the first place. And if you fix that something… This skill then becomes useless. Because you’ve stopped dieing.

Consumed Gem Penalty
Honestly, I don’t know what five percent could possibly mean in terms of dropped gems. If you have 20 gems in your inventory, you’ll drop 1 less? That’s… very underwhelming. Aside from the question of why you’re carrying 20 gems in your inventory. Could it mean 5% less chance to drop ANY gems? That’s a bit better, but it’s still only 5%, and the question of why you have them in your inventory is still valid, and then if you don’t die this skill is useless. Have you noticed the trend yet?

In short; the skill is under-powered and fundamentally flawed. The ONLY thing I can see this being useful for is pushing end-game/extremely difficult content because the risk of death could be rather high for that… but… Why are you bringing a c3 squire along for the ride if that’s what you’re doing? Why not a class that can prevent a death all together? Even if using one as the tank, pelt c3 > rodelero c3 brings more utility than pelt c3 > squire c3 as far as combat goes.

So no, it’s not “stop making this class be what it is supposed to be”. It’s “this is borderline completely useless. Give us something else or make this skill useful.”

i think all of the squire’s skills -and- the theme of the squire itself is kind of boring. (which also explains why i’m not rolling a squire, so my point is really neither here nor there.)

i’ll agree with you that it’s a fairly crappy skill. honestly, if i had a squire C3, i’d just spend the points on something else.
and I GET IT – that’s your entire point.

but it’s not the only class that has an underwhelming C3 skill.
lots of classes have lots of terrible skills at all ranks. or skills that seem somewhat inappropriate to their class.

idk what to say, really. “give it time” ? maybe it’ll get changed in the future. or maybe it won’t, and you’ll just have 5 more points to spend on Base Camp.

That’s a very poor response, imo, to something you can also see is an issue with multiple classes. The game is still in development; now is the absolute best time to voice opinions, concerns, and suggestions because things actually CAN change (especially considering how iToS and kToS aren’t required to be exactly the same).

I feel that if you actually like this game, it’s worth your time to voice your opinion on aspects or issues you find in it. So if one of those classes with the same issue is the one you wish to play, I’d sincerely suggest making a similar topic for it.

it’s not though. this is the “release”. the whole idea of it still being in beta is just something that fans have confused themselves with, not being able to distinguish between “early access” (aka, steam beta games) and “exclusive access” (just getting a headstart on the servers).

i’m not saying people shouldn’t voice opinions, but expecting major changes is probably unreasonable.

Right. Is the game finished? All 10 ranks out, get to level 600? Half of the game is still in development. Never said a thing about beta.

I don’t consider a skill change “major” nor unreasonable considering IMC will have to look into having the game use multiple cores sooner rather than later if they want it to be at all playable in GvG battles.

I am currently a pelt c3 > squire c2 . My first tos character. Planning to c3 just for the level 15 weapon maintenance and repair. Seriously I just created just to make silvers. I think it starts to pay off. Making silvers while sleeping or at work and making my main character is nice. =p