Tree of Savior Forum

Some Paladin the Crit Buff Bot Napkincrafting. Mons + Zalciai! Full SPR or INT + SPR? Thoughts?

Class and Rank Cleric
#1

Disclaimer: Some spontaneous napkincrafting, idea throwing here, may all be wrong because it’s pretty spontaneous. :wink:

I keep thinking of making a Paladin but everytime I looked at STR or DEX builds, they seemed to me a bit sefish. Sure you can do damage but so can a Wizard and Archer…and Swordie. What do you bring to the table as a STR or DEX Paladin? 10 Heal tiles and Divine Might?

But what about SPR or INT+SPR based: Cleric->Priest->Krivis->Paladin->Paladin->Paladin->Kabbalist/Oracle?

Krivis for Zalciai and Diano to some extent. Priest for Monstrance and Blessing when it gets SPR scaling.

This allows you to give your party some Dex from Monstrance, which in turn negates the need for you to get any Dex for PVE accuracy and pure Crit from Zalciai. Solo play you could potentially have a really good crit chance.

However, taking Priest instead of Cleric brings in a problem. Without Cleric 2, we can only create 10 Heal squares every 22 seconds. But is it enough, even taking Restoration skill into the account?

I’ve initially thought to have 5:5:1 INT:SPR:CON ratio. This gives you 125:124:50 points invested, or 252:161:67 raw stats without any gear. But is it worth investing into INT at all? With this kind of build what would benefit from INT? Heal, Cure, Zaibas and Merkabah if I take Kabbalist.

At 254 INT, you’d get what ~500 more healing per each tile, assuming that someone who has 20k hp walks over it, it’ll end up being 1000 from 5%, another 500 from Restoration + 500 from INT. 25% increase, not too bad. But once again is it worth the loss of exra SPR?

With Cure, you go from 342 damage over 18 hits with no INT to 9540 damage over 18 hits with 252 INT. Zaibas? Goes from 830 (assuming Zaibas 3) with no INT to 6030 but it’s true AoE unlike Cure, if I understand correctly. Plus, it has Overheat 2. INT here, keeps those 2 abilities at least on the hotbar.

Merkabah would add just 252 damage per Wheel, since it doesn’t get any extra Int scaling. That’s still 20% damage increase per Wheel. Once again not bad.

You can also consider using Animus because Animus + Restoration + Aukuras will give you extra Magic Amplification. 174.8 potential extra damage, on average 87.

EDIT : IGNORE THE BELOW CALCULATIONS, I CAN’T READ SKILL DESCRIPTIONS! Mons doesn’t add Dex, only buffs it by 1.3 and Zalciai doesn’t increase your Crit Rating, just the crit attack

What about SPR then? We got: Monstrance, Zalciai, Deprotected Zone, Aspercion, Blessing (in the future), Turn Undead and Barrier. You also get other benefits but that doesn’t matter for now.

With 161 STR, Monstrance will give us 66 DEX, on top of our 3 DEX, so 69 DEX. That’s 83 Crit, 363 evasion and 363 Accuracy. Zalciai then gives us further 180 Crit, making it 263 crit. Zalciai also reduces mobs crit resistance by 134. From what I’ve read crit resist can’t go below 0. As far as I’ve gathered normal 280 mobs have crit resist of 60-80 and bosses 120. This means that effective crit resist for 280 mobs and bosses is 0.

Taking the crit formula of (Player’s crit rate - enemy’s crit resist) * 42 / player level we get (263 - 0) * 42 / 280 = 39.45% crit rate. Well, that’s not bad.

If we had 326 SPR we would get 132 DEX, so 166 crit and Zalciai would give 344 crit and save effective crit reduction. This gives us a crit of (344+166-0) * 42 / 280 = 76.5%. Damn. That’s a lot of crit. I would probably give myself more CON in this case, so the number would be a bit lower.

On paper high SPR would be better and I haven’t gone into other SPR abilities yet. Essentially, you would be a DEX Paladin with better buff and debuffs but with lower evasion and need to manage cooldowns instead of just mashing skills (how viable is that? defo not 100% up time). Your buffs and debuffs do benefit the whole party though instead of just yourself. 10 heal tile is a bit meh though and any INT scaling abilities are basically useless outside of Heal since it has a flat percentage heal.

Am I missing anything here? Is trying to fit both Monstrance and Zaiciai an overkill? Any thoughts?

#2

Don’t forget, Monstrance and Deprotect Zone both have SPR scaling -def debuff and both stack.

Granted, I don’t really notice by how much physical damage increases with those two up on a boss since there are way too many numbers flying around for me to make a good comparison.

#3

I’m sorry but doesnt Zalciai only gives you CRIT ATTACK, NOT CRIT RATE?
But INT/SPR path is still pretty good for support though.

#4

Lowering monster’s crit resistance does about the same (zalciai)

#5

But he (OP) counts the extra CRIT ATTACK that Zalciai gives as the CRIT RATE in his formula.
Also, lowering monster’s crit resistance means the monster HAS TO step inside the magic circle first. The magic circle only lasts 5s (buff dur 40s) and CD is 20s, so using this skill for crit chance proc while PVE sounds impractical.
It maybe good for bossing/dungeon/ET/proc Incenerate (Plague Doctor’s skill) though

#6

Sure I know of it, But while playing krivis myself inside dungeon runs it does help to use zalciai on mobs surrounding your taunt, but yeah you’ve said it on your last line already

#7

Aha! I knew I was missing something here, I’ll update the OP when I have the chance. I keep forgetting Crit Attack is something else. Just a flat increase of the crit damage, now if it was a multiplier…

Anyway, we are back down to 83 crit from Mons and 80 crit reduction from Zaiciai (unless my assumed crit resist on 280 monsters is wrong). That’s (83 - 0) * 42 / 280 = 12.45%. still respectable buff. With full SPR, Zaiciai doesn’t get any further crit rating benefit and just gains extra crit attack. We do get 166 crit from Mons making our new crit (166 - 0) * 42 / 280 = 26.6%. That’s still good but not as crazy good as before. INT + SPR is getting slightly more appealing, however only by the virtue of pure SPR getting less effective.

Edit: after looking at Monstrance a bit more, I’ve noticed that DEX increase formula is not affected by SPR, it’s just (DEX * 1.3) +10. It’s still good but doesn’t affect your character as much, unless you invest some DEX yourself.

#9

IMO Your build lacks healing power ‘heavily’, even on a full INT cleric 10 heal tiles gets used up pretty quickly what more if it’s only 5. Also, you need to be constantly around your team-mates when they heal because they need to be around your restoration aura.

The reason why most people would rather go DPS paladin is because if you wanted to go support you might as well have just picked priest3. What paladin brings is conviction, restoration, and resist elements.

Conviction is a really powerful tool especially with classes that have elemental damage (since elemental damage comes first before attribute in damage calculation). If you have all 5 elemental damages (fire,lightning,poison,ice,earth) via headgear or equipment your damage increases by a flat 500 for every damage line, 600 with divine might. That’s a large number and synergizes well with classes like QS.

Restoration while it adds around 500 HP per heal tile the important factor of it is the HP Recovery. This is important because it mainly affects animus users (which there are a lot).

Resist Elements is a GvG tool, in the latest patch notes it now reduces elemental damage by skill lvl*2.5 so thats a 37.5% defense against elemental damage which is pretty strong considering that most guilds DPS come from elementamemes due to physical classes being easily countered by stone skin.

#10

True. It seems hard to fit both Mons and Zaiciai in one build. Might better better dropping either one and taking Cleric 2 or Priest 2. Priest 2 might be OK because Mass Heal scales with SPR. Then you could drop drop INT entirely and take STR, which tuns the build into that weird Paladin conversion build.

Cleric 2 seems to be better but doesn’t synergised well with high SPR. Even more so when the Blessing buff comes through. I do wish Paladin attack abilities would just do Holy damage and scale with INT + SPR instead, leave pure physical builds to Monks. Exorcise already does scale with SPR…just need to move the other 2… That or Paladin needs a skill that converts some of STR into SPR, for example.

#11

Crit resistance can go negative, just like elemental resistances can. Ive dueled people and asked them what their crit resist is after using zalcai and they say it shows as a negative. Its also extremely obvious when at 270 you can crit bosses 30-40% of the time with only 44 crit rate by using a -260 crit resist zalcai.

#12

I’ve been looking for an answer to this but couldn’t find much info. I know defense can’t go below 0 but if crit resist can… With high enough SPR, what would Zalciai give us? Let’s say 200 SPR. (9 + 200) x 0.8 = 167.2 crit reduction. Let’s say a mob had 80 crit resist, this turns it into 87.2 crit rating gain to everyone. That’s (87.2 * 42) / 280 = 13.08% extra crit from Zalciai alone to everyone in the party. That’s pretty good.

If you want to keep everything and still be able to Heal, you would need to take Cleric 1->Priest 1->Priest 2->Krivis 1->Paladin 1->Paladin 2->Paladin 3… You might as well at this point do Cleric 1->Cleric 2->Priest 1->Priest 2->Priest 3->Krivis 1->Chaplain (or something), not nessesary in that order though. Ha!