Using generic damage skills in pre-determined rotations like WoW and every other generic MMO isn’t complexity.
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One of the worst features in this game is the short-lived buff duration.
I hope it will be removed now that we’re forced C3 and we will see all buffs with 5 minutes duration so we can abandon buffs to the second column to only be recast every 5 minutes.
The need for space is real, and even with only 4 Classes, unless you spend all your skill points in 3 level 15 skills per Class, you will need more space, and this doesn’t even include other necessities like potions or consumables like scrolls, zombie capsules/coffins, etc.
This rebuild needs to do much more than what the developers have announced in this short message, so I hope it will be considered within the next developers blog (probably released next week or the week afterwards), otherwise we need to remind them of the things that should be done to improve the gameplay experience in combination with this large-scale change.
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I like it. Now my nuke cleric can go druid exorcist kabba for full nuking + mana restore as well as having the full healing capabilities of a cleric 3.
Some people have this odd notion that hitting more buttons means doing more damage or being more effective. I dunno why. But it explains why a lot of people in this game do really weird snowflakey builds while flailing their arms screaming “I’M HELPING” and “lol those meta slaves amirite”
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murm attribute buffs my low circle pelta and rodel skills to a decent damage though owO
i can make up for the decreased damage of not going C3 by the number of skills i can dish out Owo
here’s a modified version of my swordie build Owo though i kept the templar so to make up for the murm’s slow speed and conservation of stamina for bunshin Owo
well, not really “meta slaves” but this is a game afterall, and people should enjoy it however they want, if a player choose a meta they don’t really enjoy just to obtain something they enjoy, it does feel kind of restrictive don’t you think?
there’s always a middle ground for both, but if the new system doesn’t allow the starting class to be free choice as well, i find it a bit a bit unfavorable for rainbow builds
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Helmet skills are used to empower skills to higher standards, they can be removed with the new system or be reworked into something different. Not even Murmillo helmet is safe with magic evasion being a thing.
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I’ll reserve judgment on Re:Build until I see it in action.
But I’ll say that the outlined changes don’t exactly address the two bigger design issues I see with the game, being:
- “Difficulty” in endgame PVE coming mostly in the form of damage sponging, with no significant strategy-changing mechanics, and
- Psychologically exhausting gear enhancement system.
No.1 means that even at rebalanced power levels, certain classes will just not be useful until content diversifies enough to make them useful. I don’t know how they intend to redeem “slow payoff” and “sneaky/trappy” classes and idek what a full oracle is supposed to be.
And no.2 means that people will still give up or even ragequit when they get to upgrading, and the same cohort of veterans who were ok with it because other games totally have it worse!! will still be ok with it, and nothing will be done to stop the steady bleed of people who become disheartened or even disgusted with the system. Meanwhile, content somehow continues to be balanced around those players who managed to push into the higher upgrades.
It really doesn’t need to be easier in terms of odds or expense. It’s the potential system, I think, coupled with expectations of reaching high upgrades that makes people mad. RNG-based upgrading should make you feel hope on attempt and excitement on success… not dread on attempt and relief on success…
…I’m intrigued by the design goals stated by IMC and I’m hopeful that things actually work out well. I’m mostly curious where this drastic of a change came from in terms of dev priorities.
My archers might stay the same or change completely…
I mean the only reason my male archer is even an archer is cause it was the only class I had left and for the main archer costumes…
as my male archer is base on a dagger use electromancer…
I know what you are thinking WTF does that has to do with archer…
well
but if I somehow manage to get the bartender costume I might leave archer tree…
is too soon to tell. . .
Stupid retarded google cant find the right stupid image… so mad…
My take away from this is they are finally going to go for pvp (and everything that comes with it). If they truly embrace horizontal progression we might even stop getting these pointless pve updates that everybody blows through and never goes back to when the newer stuffs come out.
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some wizard class needs wizard hat skills Owo
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I just hope every class has a reason to be chosen, but it must be hard to do when we have so many classes.
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My method of creating character make it so I have to pick specific classes 
Character > Name > Look > Clothes > Skills…
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I though that they can delete class but only rework them so surely they will condence all classes on 1 rank removing some skills and the lvl cap (with balances on monster gem features).
I dont care about this I’m sure that I will be a mess, after do this stuff they will need to rebalance skills and them rebalance mobs/damage and deff, and them balance items and rework the features, surelly will take over a year to be fine and while everyone will be tired and bored of the problems with the “ranks” and all those stuff or the lack of events and new content like now.
I mean, this is like a rework on the whole features in the game. exepth the P2W stuffs like gearing, and weapon enhacing
like if they tell us “come back pls we need you and we rework the game, but you will still need to spend money frequently to enjoy it”
I’d like to hope for the same, but the way things are now it is not realistic to assume that people will choose a 2000% dmg factor fake-multihit seism from barbarians over anything Retiarius or fencer has to offer.
It’s because they ran into a wall.
With the current scaling and new Classes released every now and then only for Rank 8, people were unable to choose these Classes unless they gave up at least partially on their current Rank 8 Classes in their builds.
It was basically all about endgame meta-shifting.
The problem that arises here is that you need many consecutive Rank updates to keep the people playing because they want/need that additional Circle on Class x for their dreambuilds to work, which puts additional pressure on the developers because they seemed to realize that continuous Rank updates without content updates were not possible and/or stalling the development of such because the balancing would have to consider the possibilities of stacking multiple Rank 8 Classes.
It also created the problem that they were unable to release a limitation on having only 1 Rank 8 Class per build(which would have made balancing a lot easier and given spotlight to pre-Rank 8 Classes and possible Master Circles) which would’ve bled away a lot of players.
So,they had to topple the current system in a way that keeps the free Class combination system while allowing the developers to actually design content around every Class.
For me it seems as if the developers admitted with their statement that they created new content solely based on the meta Classes/builds with artificial difficulties here and there to boost the Class capabilities of the re-balanced Classes like Peltasta/Linker/Kabbalist.
Tree of savior was no longer in favor of diversity but in favor of meta-building so that you could overcome the high defense of enemies and out-heal their damage.
Their balancing choices even actively promoted it, saying that this Class gives more Healing, this gives more defence ignore, this gives more stat boosts,etc. while leaving out the majority of Classes from participating at content.
I wish that they get rid of defence ignore and reduction effects completely because it is a privilege of very few and one of the reasons they are overpowered in endgame, even if their skill modifiers are low.
Skills that boost attack directly also need to be reformed towards a percentage increase (e.g. Snipers Serenity no longer making your minimum attack equal to maximum attack but boosting your damage by like 50%; also,the armor break effect needs to be removed) so that there is no longer this large difference in damage just because of attack vs defense scaling[as this will be impossible to balance towards].
If the developers fail to address these issues ahead, they can create all the flat trees they want, it will still give few Classes an edge over the others because “endgame” only consists of huge defense and huge HP bulks.
Might as well remove Twist of Fate Restrictions and let Oracle>Kabbalist nuke every single boss out there with 3 skills combined regardless of equipment.
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As a fellow that makes characters based on a specific fantasy (ironic for someone that does class design analysis) i do share a similar process, personally i think it makes the game way more fun to be played and also add some challenges as you need to have some different strategies as the power level, in some cases, may not even be above average.
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I`m a wizard player, so, at least for me, most of the changes will be for the best.
I disagree when people say “They are against meta, and that is stupid”. They know there will be a meta, but they are aiming for a one more rounded by compositions and combo between trees than specific Rank 8 classes with its supports (any other rank before) on the same build. I’m tired to see Doppel c1 in every swordsman build I see around. And I don’t think that is healthy for the game to be reliant on a single class to make your whole build work.
They also aim for more meaningful and reliable choices for which class to get. If you pick a class, that is because you are aiming for that gameplay the class asks for. Any other class after may change it, but not replace it. Both will be equally powerful and meaningful.
I think this is their best opportunity to make this game shine. There are a lot of good ways to implement this change and many opportunities to bring small things that improve a lot the gameplay.
For instance: Every day, you have a quest with the Master/Submaster of the class you are ‘learning’ adapted to your level, which its reward may be Attribute Points or build up to unlock that SICK costume you are looking for. And, for every 15 class levels, you get a quest from your Master/Submaster to unlock new powers (more skills and skills points). At class level 45, there is a special quest to unlock further secrets: an awesome attribute (just like the nowadays Rank10 c3 ones)! Or more than 1 attribute. Who knows:upside_down_face:?
Of course, I am worried about the Hidden classes (Chaplain, Miko, Shinobi, etc…) and what they will do with them. We need more info, but the most obvious assumption is they will become a “c3” class as well. That may cause some balance issues, but only time will tell.
And, if all of this means the end of the ridiculous Full Con builds, I AM F&*@ING IN!!
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This is also how I make plenty of my builds. Thematic builds are fun and add a challenge to make in ToS. By challenge I mean making it viable.
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hell yeah, i’ll work on my light mage: mainly involving sadhu and possession xD. maybe krivis for zaibas light"ish" looks, and priest/chap (deppending on how they deal with chapp) for magnum exorcism pillar of light… just hope they scale the dmg to compete with rubric… don’t like going exorcist because despite rubric being a pillar of light it is not yellow like possession 
also for wizards i have a fire bender build, which goes wizz (magic missile kinda look like fireballs form most mmos) pyromancer (duh) kino (for fireworks combo, and also gravity flame ground sinergy) and the last i’m torn on ele (meteor ftw… also prominence i guess?) or omni (firefox for even stronger fireworks)
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