Tree of Savior Forum

Should all early class rank abilities become irrelevant later on, or stay relevant throughout all ranks?

General Discussion
#21

In my opinion all damage skills should receive stat scaling in their formula to at least give them some relevancy at later levels.

Most sword skills should get str/con scaling. For example Gung Ho should get STR scaling on the extra damage while getting a CON scaling to reduce the extra damage taken.

Wizards should get their damage base from their skills reduced while giving them an INT scaling, to stop that full CON quick cast madness…

Archers are fair at this point, but some classes require to get some of its base damage nerfed.

Priests should receive some love on melee based classes (Excluding priest/chaplain, which imo requires a slight nerf), the rest are okay.

2 Likes
#22

nothing you said is new to me.

but to answer the question this thread have, no. i dont think EVERY early skill should be usefull late game. with all the skills and buffs you need to maintain its going to be a bit tedious to do. (thats just my opinion)

PS: imc should really buff some classes.

#23

I can say as a wizard you have a definite advantage by choosing support over dps, at least in the long term.

Imagine a scenario. What happens to a wiz3>ele3 build once everything aside from Frost Cloud dips in damage? Electrocute, Prominence, Freezing Sphere, and Meteor get dropped entirely in favor of higher rank skills. As it is, you need frost cloud to be a true specialized dps wizard; who will want to take up that mantle knowing three circles eventually boil down to one deployment skill?

What happens once that deployment skill takes a backseat in your rotation as well? Warlock is just getting started. Meanwhile cryochrono skills maintain 100% effectiveness at every stage of the game period.

You could say this is the consequence of choosing a role…sure. Dps ranks thrive more than support only during a certain level window etc. However, why would a thoughtful player build a character with anything but the highest level range in mind? Why choose skills with expiration dates attached when building for the future offers more overall?

The system is flawed in disfavor of dps to begin with yet here we are.

2 Likes
#24

Eh buffs have the same issue (unless they’re on the second row) there is just less of them so its not so much of a problem.
Since there is a buff limit, and more and more buffs get introduced with each rank.
Weaker buffs stop getting used in favor of stronger buffs unless you have a high enough Daino to support throwing everything up.

We already see it with Runic Shield/Swift-step where people don’t want these buffs pushing off their much more worthwhile buffs.
Enchanter is coming.

#25

Daino scrolls?

/20buffs

#26

I believe that’s covered in the third last sentance.

#27

Oh, the dilemma of picking up many different classes instead of going C3 in one or 2. I guess that’s the downside of having “nearly infinite” number of unique builds.

1 Like
#28

all early game skills should fall off, especially for wizard and archers.

wizs and archers have 1 shot skills at the higher ranks already. if thieir early game skills were good end game too, that would be un balanced., bcuz then they will have 10 skills from rank 4-7 that 1 shot, and also have their 1-3 skills 1 shot too.

only classes that get an excuse are cleric and swordsman bcuz their early rank skills are more support and heals, and they need to scale good for them to be viable at their role.

#29

All in all, swordsman once again have the short end of the stick.

all other base classes bring at least 2-3 skills or more into 225+ that are useful, swordsman have just what? pain barrier?

#30

All the lower rank classes should have something that can make them relevant to a build later IMO, otherwise you just go with the obvious choice for endgame. We already have this with most of them, though. Wizard obviously has Surespell and Quick Cast, Archer has Swiftstep and Multishot (and to a degree kneeling shot), Cleric is Cleric, Swordsman has Restrain and Pain Barrier (primarily for PVP). Pyro has Enchant Fire and eventually the Hell Breath fire vulnerability debuff (but still needs some work to be worth taking), Cryo has all of its CC, Ranger has Steady Aim (and feint/barrage for rogue builds), Quarrel has Running Shot, Priest and Krivis are Priest and Krivis (there are so few ways to go wrong with Cleric classes), and Highlander has 2h crit attack attribute, skull swing and crossguard while Peltasta obviously has Swashbuckling, Guardian and shield attributes.

#31

I feel like every class should have 1 or 2 skills that should stay relevant through the entire game, but these skills should personify the class they’re from, so even if you couldn’t look at another player’s class loadout you could tell just by watching someone fight “oh, they’re a hoppelcopter”.

One can probably easily argue that for most classes, this is already the case which is good, we just need it for every class. Some classes I’m concerned will (or do) not have skills that remain useful into the endgame are Pyro, Barb, Elementalist, hunter, and sapper.

#32

One could argue that Rain and Petrify from Elementalist may be effective at future ranks… either for PvE or PvP, depending on the purpose.

I do wish Rain’s duration would last longer… or maybe give it a shorter cooldown ^o.o^

#33

If some skills don’t scale into late game, then it becomes less of your own personal choices and more “what’s better early game and end game” and mashing the two together with reckless abandon. It doesn’t so much help the diversity of builds because people would literally only ever choose the goods with a rare exception of the bads because of a gimmick that doesn’t exist. Plague Doctor sort of reflects this, but really because it’s dispelling and protection mechanics are unique to it.

Whether it be for utility, enhancement, or damage, I think there should exist basic stuff that can amount into a mountain of personality. I do however think they should be fairly varied to allow even some gimmicky combinations to flourish.

Right now I’d say Swordie lacks alot of these but it is present in some of their skills and class choices (The +50% Crit Damage bonus to being a Highlander wearing 2H swords for instance.) At first I thought that they needed serious percentage love, but honestly give Swordies some cooldown reductions (Moulinet for instance is atrocious) and a few more overheats and they’ll perform much better.

#34

hey its their own fault for not picking INT builds with finestra right?XD

#35

If anything, all classes should offer something in their C3’s that make them relevant throughout the game. This would encourage people to make builds that include C3’s of lower rank classes (all ranks actually). Obviously the amount of power players will get out of their builds should lean more toward the later ranks for progression’s sake, but getting any class to C3 should never feel like a “waste at the end”, “only good for early/mid game”, etc.

I think it would be terrible design and a waste of creativity and ingenuity to allow all of the lower ranks to “fall off” completely in the true end game.