Tree of Savior Forum

Rogue sucks now but i still play Tree of Clerics@Wizard.net

General Discussion
#21

The thing is that IMC wants magic to be non-dodgeable. In their logic, magic isn’t something that requires any accuracy. Which I guess can make sense.
I don’t have an issue with this logic, but with the way they applied it.

The problem is that magic has basically no con: it cannot be dodged, it cannot be blocked, the damage is high… And the worst is that the magic classes are the ones with all the protective spells, the healing, and the CC. Magical classes have way too much utility.
They have several shields, they have invincibilities, they have skills to regen HP/heal, they have skills to protect themselves from DOTs, they’re the ones with the anti-magic spells too… They just got everything while the other classes (especially Archers imo) are full of cons.

I main mostly Clerics and have a few Archers, and the difference is just stupid. Good damages, good protections, I can just yolo everything. It’s not even fun to play, actually.
But IMC anyway stopped giving a proper role to every trees/classes when they decided that only your weapon matters while the mobs/bosses deal no damages. The full support (buffer/healer) builds died, and now they’re determined to just make every classes a DPS one.

Little bonus: you add the absturdity of STR giving ACCURACY and DEX giving BLOCK PENETRATION when it should logically be the opposite.

5 Likes
#22

i so agreee and i have like 700 dex almost 750 …and IM STILL BLOCKED so wtf?!

1 Like
#23

Disclaimer: tbl and tos suck. don’t play. i have autism. don’t play

I’m not gonna deny that I think rogue is weak. It probably is from what I’ve seen. But there’s also something I haven’t seen and it’s a rogue in TBL with actual gear. TOS TBL is very reliant on gear now because of damage reduction and the removal of base damage from skills. I’m not sure if you should be expecting to kill anyone with your amount of funding (I see a 31k HP pool and a didel grand cross). Yes, you need block penetration, accuracy, and physical attack to do damage with an archer or other physical class whereas with clerics and wizards, that is not the case. I don’t know if you bothered to look at the investment on my cannon and equipment (I’m the cannoneer in the second part of the video). I can easily say that it’s at least 20 times more invested in gear and attributes than your character. The cleric has about 120,000HP (literally 4 times the amount you have ) so even if you didn’t get blocked, do you think you would have done more than tickle? If I were to actually try to put that amount of investment from my cannoneer into a rogue, I’m sure it would have better results (minus the fletcher cuz what the actual fuck do you think fletcher is going to do in pvp). With IMC’s removal of base damage from skills almost a year ago now, you kinda need to use something more than a level 200 bow if you expect to do any type of damage (I haven’t seen your dagger but meh).

5 Likes
#25

what about those who invest on archer in this thread? :wink: notice how its still imbalance? nop? its either you are blind or you main cleric

invest in archer they say. < this make me laugh :joy:

#26

@Megiddo_Yggdra but hackapell burns through SP like there’s no tomorrow with its small hit box skills…

@gwa_pao yea that chart is stupid… At least the defense and difficulty parts are right…

Edit: oh speaking of which, I haven’t tried the rebalanced musketeer yet. Is it good? What are the strengths and weaknesses of it? I’m restting my hackapell into arch2-sap2-wugu2-musket3 soon.

1 Like
#27

Yes it is. Though, it’s somewhat doable with Squire foods. Combined with sorcerer’s summon servant and you can have unlimited SP

Hitbox are small yes. But skarp isn’t. Combined with attribute AoE ratio +10 (Kinda expensive though) or falconer helps.

If you are mobbing mobs, just put yourself against a wall and they will lined up

#29

I knew it you are one of those unskilled full con clerics lmao. no wonder you are against this thread.
why are you suddenly changing to cannoneer? i thought we are talking about rogue… :smirk:

2 Likes
#30

This occurred on the day transcendence was added to the game.

1 Like
#31

That’s pretty much stating the obvious; invest to do damage and to mitigate damage but the real question is ‘will investment make an actual significant difference in backstab’s case?’ the answer is simply no. Due to the very fact that backstab multiplier doesn’t have that ‘hurt potential’ which damage is further sponged by reduction and accuracy/block penetration issues. This is also true to most physical classes with no accuracy/penetration gimmicks. To give you an actual case, there is a geared archer3scout1rogue3mergen2 trans 10 bow in SEA, but unfortunately his kill potential is no way near an equally geared cannoner or even that of an SR, and mergen have way higher skill multipliers than rogue’s backstab, so if a geared mergen skill does little what will geared backstab do?

The point of the damage reduction is to prevent ridiculous fast phased matches but it severly affected the damage on most lower rank classes with already low skill multipliers such as rogue, cataphract, elementalist. That is why most classes in lower ranks purpose is a utility, if you’ll notice most physical pvp builds ends up being rainbow.

1 Like
#32

Gotta agree with Milleu, seems to know the truth of choosing archer in ToS…

I still chose archer coz it is my gamestyle. But honestly if I didn’t care, I’d most probably pick a cleric path for the amount of investment I have put up for my archer main.

#33

arent u are the one laughing about investing in an archer lmao ? nice :smirk: tho. Also my main is a dragoon which make ur arguement invalid lui.

#34

true that… if only i knew what would happpen to my lil rogue 2 years ago

#35

rogue is fine, people cry too much. :tired:

1 Like
#36

By the way, even though most agree archer is underpowered in this game, it’s good that I still see a bunch of archers in dungeon 300. Funny thing is, I actually feel like there are WAY MORE archers than clerics (every dungeon run I almost always see at least 1-2 archers, whereas a run without cleric is very common)

Off topic here, how many of you think rogue is more of a defense or support circle? I mean, evasion, lachrymator, burrow are defensive, whereas feint, capture, vendetta are supportive. Only backstab and sneak hit are more offensive (though one is a buff, not an active attack)

#37

uhmm what? lol idk what you are talking bout man. it looks like you need rest in games, you are not thinking straight anymore . :thinking:

nice lie lol… either way the fact that you are not using archer in tbl makes your argument invalid.

1 Like
#38

Rogue is still very good okay?

This is an example of using 2016 gear in the present time.

1 Like
#39

rogue still trash now regardless of gear

#40

Rogue? What is it? I thought it is called “Sneak Hit Filler” (with Feint as a bonus and Lacrymator if you will go too deep).

Sometimes I hear something about “C3” and “Burrow”, but that’s probably my imagination.

However, it is not the worst filler in archer tree. (It’s just archer tree has few viable choices unlike clerics where every class is good).

#41

Of course, cause PVP in this game is totally balanced. We should declare a class balanced because it kills some 0 CONs in pvp.

#42

i agree… Wizard and Cleric the rest is trash. My Monk with no solmiki and weak sauce alchemist perform better SMH