Other than Slithering, Montano also help a lot in tanking mobs. I use Five Hammer (Lv. 40 Mace, +5 AOE ratio) to make Montano hit almost any monster in range. Using Mace instead of sword work better with Slithering + High Kick + Shield Push combo, allowing high damage boost (with proper Chaplain buff it can go up to a few thousand per hit, although anyone can hit for thousands with Chaplain).
Iâm not trying to make fun or anything, I myself am going Rodelero C2, mostly for PvP reasons though.
Rodelero C3 is sort of a trap, IMO, even for people who want to make the most of the class.
Even though I took pelt at c1 (so that I can actually participate in pve), this is mostly aimed at PvP/above average solo damage hybrid-ness. Barbarian has stuns, and does massive burst. Rodelero has interrupts up the wazoo, and Dragoon packs on more damage.
Looking forward to Rodelero C2 
If you replace the two Barbarian ranks in that build with Hoplite, it would be so much better because you would have Finestra for increased crit and block, plus Spear Lunge for increased pierce attacks to go with Dragoonâs burst skills. You got enough cc from Rodelero and peltasta as it is anywayâŚ
Well to to be fair my R7 is still a bit of an in-flux thing at the moment. Shinobi, Fencer, and Dopple are on the table too.
Hoplite is the obvious choice for PvE purposes, but itâs not so superior from the standpoint of PvP utility. Barbarian has just a lot more all-around burst with stuns attached to that burst. You can never have too much CC from the perspective of a PvPer.
It also has itâs own buffs, that while not as strong as Finestra, widen the gap further from a purely PvP standpoint. Itâs worth noting that Finestra also hits your evasion which is important in PvP too.
If weâre going to talk about a build tailored specifically for PVP, then none of these builds are suitable for it because of the lack of Corsairâs iron hook.
Itâs the only cc that bypasses Plague Doctorâs bloodletting so that is essential for any PVP build (unless youâre Swordsman c3 > Cataphract c3 > Dragoon meta).
Both Barbarian and Rodeleroâs stuns/slows are countered by bloodletting.
Spear Lunge is still essential to bring out Dragoonâs full potential though, as it practically doubles pierce attacks and u want to pair that up with Dragoonâs burst skills. But then, for PVP, u would be using a 2H spear as u cannot kill anything with a 1H spear - itâs just not powerful enough. If youâre using 2H then u canât use Rodelero skills anyway, and Peltasta brings nothing to PVP without a shield. So the build would look like this:
Swordsman c2 > Hoplite c2 > Corsair > Doppel > Dragoon (if PD present)
OR
Swordsman c2 > Hoplite c3 > Corsair > Dragoon (if PD present)
OR
Swordsman c3 > Hoplite c2 > Corsair > Dragoon (if no PD present)
These builds (except the last one) lack cc so they rely on iron hook, so it is very important that u land iron hook otherwise uâll be dead pretty fast.
Peltasta is pretty much a requirement for having an in to high-end PvE content, so itâs out of the question to drop it for another rank of Swordsman (ew).
Plague-doctors are an OP class (and I predict a nerf eventually), and they are certainly the bane of Rodelero, but it canât really be helped and Iâm not really slotting a C1 from one class simply to be able to hold a plague doctor in place. Hook is a great move but itâs not absolutely necessary to catch and kill people. Thatâs why we have sprint.
A lot of discussion on meta and âbestâ class choices are really too much based on theory craft at the moment based on numbers and hypothetical maximium potential damage.
Damage of course is important in PvP, and so is CC, but itâs just not that simple though. Practicality has a way of bitch slapping you sometimes.
Again, hoplite falls behind from a pvp perspective. Itâs damage is good for lengthy encounters but itâs hypothetical damage potential in burst situations pales in comparison to barb or highlander.
I like how you dismiss everything I say with âpracticalityâ.
You pick Hoplite for a DRAGOON build mainly for SPEAR LUNGE and FINESTRA not for itâs damage skills. Long Stride is also a bonus gap closer (if you can pull it off).
If you go Dragoon without Hoplite then youâre going to hit that much weaker.
Corsairâs Iron Hook lasts 9 seconds at level 5 - no other cc comes close.
Unless youâre going Cataphract c3 > Dragoon, then Hoplite c2 and Corsair are mandatory for PVP.
Certainly much better than a Dragoon build with Barbarian c2 in it. Barbarian c2 skills donât even hit that hard (especially with a 1H weapon), stuns are short and negated by PD and Frenzy + Warcry at c2 are pretty much worthless. PD got nerfed in kTOS but it still has 23 seconds, enough to wipe the floor with the enemy team before it runs out.
Thereâs no synergy with Dragoon. Might as well go Doppel - at least cyclone brings some damage to the table
Youâre dismissing what Iâm saying too. Youâre fronting the benefits of Hoplite, Finestra and Pierce vulnerability as if I didnât hear you or donât already know, and Iâm not ignoring it. It is obvious why Hoplite is a good pick for a Dragoon, itâs blatantly loud and clear.
In PvP itâs just not the same thing though, you arenât fighting training dummies, and Barbarian just has skills that are better suited for bursty PvP situations, where as Hoplite is simply meant to give you high DPS.
Good DPS =| good burst.
Calling Hoplite and Corsair âmandatoryâ for PvP is pretty short-sighted. Great classes, but âmandatoryâ is quite a big stretch.
You also seem to have a good time ignoring the huge potential buffs Barbarian may be betting assuming ITOS gets the same patches as KTOS.
Barbarian c3 maybe, with a 2H weapon. Certainly not a barbarian c2 with a 1H weapon. Youâre not going to burst down anything with that.
If your burst is not strong enough in PVP u will be the one that ends up dead if the enemy manages to get away with 10% hp and u blew your cooldowns
I weapon swap for Barb skills friend , a lot of the burst is going to come from both the combination of the Barbarian and my R7 skills.
Tack on all the annoying â â â â Rodelero C2 gives me, and itâs a recipe for disaster.
âŚunless youâre a Plague Doctor lol.
I Donât see any burst in your build to be honest.
Barbarian c2 is not burst.
Rodelero c2 is not burst.
Dragoon without Finestra / Spear lunge is not burst, since u need to stat Dex to get crit without finestra and that takes away a lot of points which you coudâve gotten STR instead.
In league PVP it will be crawling with PDs, even after the bloodletting nerf.
Do you really think the bonus from finestra and spear is so large that it completely eclipses and out-damages the large damage advantage seism, helm chopper, and cleave + cleave buffs give over the hoplite skills? You do remember that cleave gives crit rate? That it could soon buff slash damage by a huge amount (making seism hurt)? The potentially soon, 3 overheat to each skill (making crit rate possible to have high uptime).
Especially if youâre comparing c2 Barb to c2 hoplite.
I mean I understand Iâm not going to change your mind here but right now itâs clear you are pretty close minded and think only hoplite is the viable choice, but havenât taken much time to think about why.
100 crit rate from lv 10 Finestra is like close to 100 dex. Stop trying to downplay it.
Also Barbarian c2 is terrible even with Barbarian buffs from kTOS. But if u think itâs gonna be enough then by all means keep investing time in that build
Except itâs not because it also makes you more vulnerable by lowering your evasion.
Cleave gives 50, while also doing a huge amount of damage. Up to 3 times overheat (in KTOS).
Then factor in that the damage increase of seism, helm, and cleave over the hoplite moves is more than the amount the hoplite moves gain WITH finestra and pierce vulnerabilityâŚ
I mean, I get that you feel strongly about this, itâs difficult to sometimes change your thinking but barbarian is not a bad circle path if weâre talking about strictly itâs other competitors at C2 in the same ranks.
Sigh.
100 crit rate is worthwhile by a long shot even with the small sacrifice in evasion, which doesnât work against wizards anyway.
And for the last time, YOU TAKE HOPLITE C2 FOR FINESTRA AND SPEAR LUNGE TO BOOST DRAGOON DAMAGE, NOT FOR HOPLITEâS STABBING OR PIERCE SKILLS.
Iâm done with this. Iâve already said what needs to be said.
ILet me try to make this clearer for you since the point keeps sailing over your head:
Barb path gives more damage options WITH CC
Once your dragoon skills are down, then wut. Youâre not fighting a boss you canât auto spam, youâre stuck with hoplite skills.
Barb ranks present more damage opportunities that you can couple with your rank 7. You might lose finestra and pierce vuln but you gain A LOT in other areas you seem to just love ignoring for some reason. The crit rate loss is minimized with cleave, and the pierce vuln is minimized by the Barb skills doing a TON more damage more often.
WITH CC.
Now admittedly, a lot of my argument is based on the idea that we WILL get Barb and Rodelero buffs. Thatâs really the weakest part of my logic, and if you were to attack that, then weâd have a disagreement we could agree on.
Anyone wasted their time thought this thread is about Rodelero and came across two guys arguing over Dragoon builds with Barb and Hoplite for 15 comments? Srsly if you want to discuss about this why donât you go to the Dragoon thread so there will be more people giving you the experienced opinions?
Well the overall point is that rolling Rodelero is a conflict of interest to PvE.
You absolutely need damage options in your tool box unless you plan to be in a grind party the entire way past 150+ or so.
Leading up to Rodelero, your choices are either Peltasta, Barb, HL, or Hoplite as a class to focus on, and generally most would recommend you pick one and not multiple.
So letâs assume you arenât doing Pel C2/ C3 > Rodelero.
Barb, Highlander, or Hoplite. Highlander has debuffs/burst, Barb has mobbing/burst, Hoplite has probably the ticket to the highest sustained DPS as long as youâre using spears only.
The conversation above wasnât necessarily about Dragoon, so much as it was about the benefits of Barbarian compared to Hoplite, 2/3 of your major damage choices in a Rodelero build.
tbh I donât really think Rodelero synergizes with either Barb or Highlander since all the skills require having a shield as a secondary weapon. Hopliteâs Finestra may be since it increases block and not holding a shield would make that a waste, plus all skills except Montano deals Strike damage (Shooting Star is changing to Strike in kToS)
Rodelero benefits a lot in Slithering + High Kick to get the mobs/bosses debuffed with 200% bonus Strike damage for 10 secs then throw in your most powerful Strike type attacks within that duration so I donât think Barb supports Rodelero well. Once you get the Slithering + High Kick debuff combo, you just wonât use anything else on bosses. Cleave is not a choice. Frenzy is meh to Rodelero. You wonât normal attack that much.
Rodelero main (by main, I say getting Rodelero C3) canât be a pure DPS. You need to be somewhat off tank or itâs a waste since using a 1H weapon with shield just already tone down your damage by tons and mobs that are vulnerable to Strike type damage are not a lot in numbers. You wonât deal as much damage to mobs compared to other swordie builds no matter how much you try.
Rodeleros are fine with instances and dungeons if youâre with a party. The CC the class provides are really powerful and continuous.
You wonât do well soloing though. Never. If youâre going main Rodelero, just know you need a party or be doomed.
So yeah I donât see the point playing Rodelero if you donât grab at least a C1 Peltasta. 18% Evasion from Guardian also helps a lot besides Swash Backling and Umbo Blow is a good add to the Strike attack arsenal.
Yeah, itâs an unfortunate pill we have to swallow, we will likely not ever do as good as damage as other pure red circle builds.
However, in return, we gain a ton of utility that is extremely useful in PvP and (limited) some PvE situations as well when mobbing.
Only because I was curious, I actually did some calculations comparing Hoplite C2 to Barbarian C2.
Since strength is directly related to your crit attack, and dex is directly related to your crit rate, it was incredibly easy to do these basic calculations.
Barbarian C2 with: Helm Chopper 10, Cleave 10, Seism 5, Frenzy 2, Warcry 3
Hoplite C2 with: Finestra 10, Pierce 10, Stabbing 8, Long Stride 1, Spear Lunge 1
I believe these to be a reasonable and fair assessment of maximizing damage abilities with the two.
Letâs compare a full skill rotation for both classes. So, both classes use all of their skills at once (including any available overheats). Just a massive damage/SP dump. Hereâs the components of my calculationsâŚ
- The Hoplite has 300 strength, damage calculated with Finestra active
- The Barbarian has 250 strength, and 50 dex, damage calculated with cleave active
- I am assuming that the Hoplite has 100% crit rate, and the Barbarian has 50% crit rate, for simplicity. That means the Hoplite crits 100% of the time, and the Barbarian only crits 50% of the time.
- The Barbarianâs 50 dex recovers his crit rate to the same level as the Hoplite with Finestra active.
- 250 Crit attack will be added to every single Barbarian skill, 300 to every Hoplite skill.
- Iâll be ignoring Warcry or Frenzy as part of the calculation, so Hoplite has an advantage in that sense.
- Iâm going strictly off of the base damage of the skills
- Iâm assuming we donât get the KTOS buffs.
- Ignoring attribute benefits to any of the skills
- Ignoring that you can swap a 2h to use Barb skills, making them do more damage for any Rodelero who has a 2h.
- Iâm ignoring the pierce vulnerability of Hoplite, but donât worry, in the end it doesnât even matter *whistles
- Ignoring Cleave damage increase when mob is stunned (due to helm chopper and seism).
Barbarian Dmg Values (+50 Crit Rate)
974 - 41 SP x2 (Overheat)
1030 - 36 SP x2 (Overheat)
1054 - 37 SP x2 (Overheat)
Totals: 6,116 Damage, 228 SP
Rough Crit Rate Factor (250 Strength):
Totals: 7,616 Damage, 228 SP
Hoplite Dmg Values (+100 Crit Rate)
236 - 37 SP
670 - 38 SP
348 - 24 SP
236 - 14 SP x2 (Overheat)
Totals: 1,726 Damage, 127 SP
Rough Crit Rate Factor (300 Strength):
Totals: 2,690 Damage, 127 SP
What you can glean from this is that barbarian gets roughly 2.5x the amount of damage for 100 more SP used in a full systematic clean sweep of skill use.
Can you imagine if we get the KTOS buffs? The gap would be even larger. Remember, in KTOS they get a 50% slash damage increase after cleave too. Rodelero also provides increased striking damage damage from slithering which affects helm chopper currently, but Iâm ignoring that.
Now, while itâs unrelated to Rodelero, Iâd like to bring the R7 Dragoon pick back at the end here just to demonstrate how Barbarian circles compare to Hoplite circles for an eventual Dragoon rank 7.
Barb Dragoon Calculations (250 Strength, +50 Crit Rate):
656 - 69 SP
926 - 84 SP
3,812 - 81 SP
525 - 43 SP
Totals: 6,919 Damage, 277 SP
Hop Dragoon Calculations (300 Strength, +100 Crit Rate)
956 - 69 SP
1226 - 84 SP
4,112 - 81 SP
825 - 43 SP
Totals: 7,119 Damage, 277 SP
TOTAL DAMAGE OUTPUT IN ONE FULL SKILL ROTATION
Barb Dragoon: 14,535 Damage for 505 SP
Hop Dragoon: 9,809 Damage for 404 SP
So, yes, Hoplite can pull more damage out of Dragoon skills, and this isnât even accounting for pierce vulnerability. Auto-attacking is also much better with Hoplite. However, do you think pierce vulnerability can make up for the 4726 damage advantage that a full Barbarian burst cycle has?
It doesnât. It might come somewhat close, if you pile on attributes, the bleed, and other factors, but it falls short.
However, Hoplite has more sustainability due to lesser SP cost to manage its rotation, and it also provides a hefty amount of block, which canât really be measured in DPS terms but it is incredibly useful, especially since as a rodelero itâs likely youâll have one equipped. Barbarian however also has stuns on itâs major damage abilities, which gives it a few perks as well that apply to both PvE and PvP.