Tree of Savior Forum

RIP, autoswap gave wrong numbers, ignore thread

Class and Rank Archer
#1

Here are some tests done by a friend with his A3-Scout3 build.

325-325 patk (unequipped weapon)
320 atk on lvl 5 twin arrows
0 elemental damage/buffs
30% attributes
target: lvl 2 leaf bug (plate), 3 def

Damage test (small sample):
2633-2831 non-crit

Reversed damage formula:
(2633/1.3)/(320+325-3)= 3.155~
(2831/1.3)/(320+325-3)= 3.392~

Rather than the assumed 200%~ damage multiplier for the skill, it looks like it has a varied multiplier of roughly 315-340%. This is actually insanely strong, considering that Snipe is at 400% (while having much higher base skill atk).

Which brings me to the next point: Twin Arrows may be one of the strongest WB-ing filler skills. 5 overheats, 7s cooldown. Attributes are cheaper as well (compared to higher rank skills). Something like A3-R1-F3 could potentially be the strongest fletcher build with this.

Thoughts?

#3

I just did some tests myself… I’m not sure what your friend did but I got something like a ~2.5-2.7 multiplier instead of your 3.155-3.392.

359-359 Patk
320 Skill attack
0 elemental attack
30% attribute
202 Crit Atk
Tested vs. level 2 leaf bug

Non crit attack: 2264-2363
Crit attack: 3863-3883

For the non crits:
(2264/1.3)/(320+359-3) = 2.58
(2363/1.3)/(320+359-3) = 2.69

For crits:
(3863/1.3)/((320+359-3)*1.5+202) = 2.44
(3883/1.3)/((320+359-3)*1.5+202) = 2.46

I’d also like to add that before we got the kTOS patches, twin arrows was only a 200% modifier (i did tests back then). However the attributes were bugged when used against cloth enemies. It seems the kTOS patches somehow fixed this but ended up increasing the attack modifier

#4

Interesting…there seems to be something weird going on with Twin Arrows if it is having such wildly differing results. Since I wasn’t the one who did the tests, I can’t tell if he had any other variable that affected his damage.

One of the tests he did vs cloth targets (Hanaming) his reported damage was 3220…which seems to indicate that the +50% damage on cloth target is actually additive to this hidden modifier, rather than a x1.5. Could you test this as well?

#6

In my experience with the skill, the first hit always do double damage over the second

#7

It’s actually a fake multihit, it only hits once but cuts the damage displayed in two for theatrics. The ‘two hits’ might actually mean 200% modifier as with Spiral Arrow’s 6 hits being 600% multiplier, these are just assumptions right off the bat though and it needs more testing as my experience with Spiral Arrow and Steady Aim is weird.

Steady Aim is supposed to be a T2 modifier i.e., it is used at the end along with the T1(skill damage modifier), enhanced attribute modifier and T3(target modifier). Apparently though, Steady Aim only adds a few digits in the hundreds to my lv5 Spiral Arrow w/ lv40 attribute which doesn’t even reach 5% damage. That’s weird because my patk is 1k~ with a crossbow.

I want to test it with other ‘fake’ multihit skills but I don’t have Archer 3 and Fletcher with my Ranger 3. I was actually looking for test buddies in Telsiai, I need an Archer 3, a Fletcher with high enough level of Barbed Arrow and a Linker 2 for buff sharing my lv15 Steady Aim.

#8

I know it is a fake multihit. If you look at the numbers I provided, I provided the total damage done, not just 1 hit.

My point is that this is currently not a 200% modifier fake-multi. It is a 310%+ modifier fake-multi (or in Hakaze’s case, 240-270%). This means that it is more than 2 arrows worth of damage, hence the topic title.

A 310%, 5 charges skill on 7 seconds cooldown is VERY DIFFERENT from a 200%, 5 charges skill on 7 seconds cooldown. And this difference could mean that it becomes a top-tier filler ability for Fletchers at world-bossing scenarios.

#9

I was addressing the post before mine, sorry for the confusion.

Regarding the formula though, the modifiers at the end of the formula should be calculated as 100% + N%.

But I wouldn’t call it top tier since Fletcher has Barbed Arrow which does the same to cloth(if not higher) and has 0 cd. Twin Arrow could be nice filler for Plate and Ghost though.

#10

Based on what a fletcher friend has been telling me, Cloth bosses are in fact a rarity (Helga and 2-3 others), and against Leather Barb would be having a 200% modifier (or using your terminology, 100%+100%) versus 100+210%+ modifier of Twin Arrows, which will only get stronger as we reach higher gear caps and things like the Transcendence system (we’re talking about +15 Didel Grandcross with 1000~ total attack here).

Ghost and Plate types are fairly common along with leather, and investing in a skill that is only effective versus 1 common and 1 super niche armor type (leather+cloth) is worse than a skill that is effective against all (and also deals extra damage versus cloth).

#11

As I’ve said with my previous post, I’m no Fletcher nor Archer 3 so you might want to take that into consideration. My experience in WB is also limited. I’m Ranger 3 which I built with PVP in mind and my interest in posting is to clarify how fake multihits are actually placed in the formula, as much as your OP. That being said, I’d like to reiterate my concern with regards to Steady Aim and fake multihits, I need to confirm if it behaves the same way with other fake multihits as it does with Spiral Arrow. It might be a bug nobody hasn’t noticed yet or we might be missing something very crucial to the formula.

Also, you confused the formula for modifiers. It’s 100% + N%, N being the modifier i.e., Twin Arrow = 200% and Spiral Arrow = 600% as we know it now. That would mean you should use 300% and 700% in the formula.

#12

Spiral Arrow is a real multi-hit with a super-weird damage distribution and forumla, as my friends have confirmed that spiral takes off 5 “blocks” of hp from a statue. But at the same time, it displays damage in a ‘fake multi’ manner.

#13

Spiral Arrow is a fake multihit. I’ve been using it for months now, I know a multihit and a fake when I see one. Even if it’s a real multihit, it should receive more than what I am receiving from Steady Aim while using it.

It only does 1 damage to ‘structures’ ‘object’ targets i.e., the start of siauliai mission. It also only does 1 instance of damage. Watch some updated videos.

#14

Wrong. See the damage formula: [Damage Guide] The big formula, modifier types, and how they interact!

All modifiers are converted from total figures to additive figures for the formula. For example, Meteor is 400%, so the additive value is +300%. All modifiers within a same tier are additive to one another and are added to the default value of “100%”. Here’s a list of all the existing modifiers (and related formulas):

Therefore it should be 200% for twin arrows and 600% for spiral arrow in the formula.

#15

The only thing I can say to that is: Test this out versus “block count” targets like diev statues and the obstacle at the beginning of missions. All fake multi-hits should only deal 1 damage once, real multis will hit x amount of times. I have been told that Spiral hits 5 times on statues.

What I am trying to say is that Spiral Arrow is a real multi that seems to behave like a fake multi aka its a special case for some reason, because unlike other skills, all 5 multi hits are delivered at the same time with different damage values. Unless it is literally a new type of fake multi that actually hits 5 times but only goes through defense once.

lvl 10 Astral Body Explosion lists 250% + 1125 for its damage modifier.

721 magic attack
8 magic amp
0% attribute
target: lvl 2 Leaf Bug

Expected damage (based on what you are telling me) is (721+1125)*(100%+250%) = 6461

Actual damage Dealt = 4602 (which fits 100%+150% aka 250%).

So no, that’s not how it works.

I’ll take your word for it then.

#16

You clearly misunderstood the formula. You used 1.3 to reverse engineer your Twin Arrow damage yet you forget to add 100% for the Twin Arrow modifier. If what you’re saying is true, then it should be 0.3 not 1.3 which is wrong.

#17

No, I’m right lol. You need to learn to read. I’ve also done extensive testing with other modifiers (i.e. running shot) and this is how it works.

Taken from the same topic I linked :
“Enhance
The main damage attribute every damage skill has.
Add +1% to +100% to the formula above depending on attribute level.”

Therefore with Level 30 attributes, it becomes 130% in the formula and therefore we divide by 1.3

#18

Ok, mystery solved.

Turns out that even if you unequip your weapon in the inventory, if you have weapons on the weapon swap, as archers the game will auto-swap to cast skills for you. Removing weapons from inventory + weapon swap slots results in not being able to use any archer attacks (outside of a select few buffs etc) so that was the reason why twin arrows seemed stronger.

352-355 patk
320 from skill
lvl 2 leaf bug, 3 def

1739-1747 avg

(1739/1.3)/(352+320-3)=1.999540071288951

The modifier is in fact still at 200%.

Thread Closed. :joy:

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#19

I’m not sure about other skills but for Spiral Arrow at least, it works like 100% + 600%.

Phy Atk 1004-1030
180 from skill
lv 2 leaf bug

non-crit damage 9962 as shown here:

If it’s calculated like what you’re saying i.e., 100% + 500% or 600% then it should have been 8.3k~

As for Spiral Arrow being a fake multihit:

#20

No attributes?
Any Elemental Attack on your hats?

In any case, as shown on my screenshot, Astral Body Explosion’s damage is indeed 250% or 100%+150%, not 100%+250% as you have suggested.

#21

I made sure to take off all element gears, hats are all patk. Attribute is lv40. It might be different for other skills then. I tried Astral Body Explosion and it’s working as you’ve suggested but its modifier is on the tooltip so it might be different. I’m inclined to believe that 100% + N applies to skills with hidden modifiers, I’ll do extensive testing once I got the chance to.

EDIT:
It turns out it’s the same for all skills, it really is 100% + N or 1 + N/100. Like what I’m using with my tool/spreadsheet:

blob.jpg725×34 27.2 KB

I wasn’t sure I got it right before but I am now.

#22

Havent extensively read the thread, but some small things I’m going to put to rest:

All T1 Modifiers (in other words, those that appear in the tooltip, like astral body explosion and meteor) already include that 100% from the formula. Technically, the formula should just be

... * (T1) * (100% + T2) ....

instead of

... * (100% + T1) * (100% + T2) ....

because no T1 modifiers will ever stack together (so far nothing but the visible skill modifiers is in that tier). The only reason it’s still written as it is now is because it matches the other tiers (T0/2/3) just in case something, somewhere, is additive to it.

So if a skill visibly says it does 250% + Raw like Astral body, if you’re using the formula, that 250% = (100% + N)

Carry on~

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