Tree of Savior Forum

Rework - Overall/Physical/Swordsman

Hi, I’m writing this post because I’m very disappointed with the way how IMC handled the swordsman tree in the last patchs.

Since the RE:build I see myself coming and leaving the game and the reason for this is that I love the Tree Of Savior, it’s a unique game, unique playstyle and unique visual, beautiful arts, maps, songs. Everything related to his identity as MMO/RPG is amazing. But, when we start to dig through other aspects of a MMO/RPG game, like their roles, formulas, stats, advantages/disadvantages, etc… being briefly their “numbers” it’s a completely mess.

This Game feels like it still in beta. I never felt like this game was ready to be played. Because the way IMC tries to balance things in their majority it’s through SKF and Cooldowns increase/reduction. They “balance one, two, three classes” and them move forward to the next group and do the same thing on them and then, repeat this process over and over again, and when they end. The Game stills unbalanced… because the first group balanced is weaker in comparison to their latest group balanced. And then, they repeat… It’s cyclical…

This game has more balance patches than a competitive e-sports games that made those kind of changes not because they need, it’s just to keep the game attractive when a season ends.

Let’s start from the beginning

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FIRST TOPIC
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If we look at in-game help section and scroll down until “Combat > Incompatibility”. We’ll this:


9 Elements split in 3 Groups

  • First Group - Fire, Ice and Lightning
  • Second group - Psychokinesis , Non and Earth
  • Third Group - Dark, Poison and Holy

Magical Incompatibility works much better than the Physical Incompatibility and I’ll tell you why.

Mage Tree in now days have a good synergy between their class tree, they don’t have any weapon type restriction and they don’t have any skill/buff/passive (in other words steroids) that can’t stack with other steroids.

Now, looking at Physical Incompatibility:
TreeOfSavior Physical Incompatibility
Looks like we’ve two groups. Melee and Ranged, right? WRONG!!

  • Ranged Attacks has their advantage related to their weapon type, you don’t have a restriction based on the damage type from their skills.

I like that, is much more easier and less technical to balance instead of have Arrow, Projectile and Explosion for example… You wouldn’t have to put a single skill with a different type of damage than your weapon would theoretically deal like happens with melee classes.

  • Melee Classes have their advantages based on their damage type(independent of the weapon they are using) which is based on the skill that was used.

Would be better if it was something like

  • Dagger +25% against Cloth
  • Rapier+25% against Leather
  • Fist +25% against Plate
  • Spear +25% against Cloth
  • Sword +25% against Leather
  • Mace +25% against Plate

Just to give a example of how this can create more synergy… My Sorsha Hutton card (+10% pierce type damage) could improve my Disarm skill which is a strike damage type skill but requires a spear to be used…
Hoplite has been picked as steroids for Nak Muay for example, which is completely non-sense but it’s cool, because I’m buffing the damage from spears, not from “pierce property”.

5 Likes

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SECOND TOPIC
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Could anyone tell me a reason to why I should opt for another type of armor than is not leather?

TreeOfSavior_20211019_000428

Why Leather is so buffed in comparison to the other type of armors?

Digging more…

Let’s look at their base defenses multiplier

      Type            Physical Defense                Magic Defense
      Plate                 200%                          100%
      Leather               150%                          150%
      Cloth                 100%                          200%

The sum of defense multipliers for each armor type is 300%. In other words, Leather has no downsides. Even when it comes to the aspect “being a tanker”, it has more sustain/defense against magic damage compared to plate, and more physical sustain/defense compared to cloth…

I would like to suggest for Plate and Cloth new passives

Cloth Mastery: Magic
Allos you to equip [Cloth] armor.
20% Magic Damage reduced when the player is equipped with 4 pieces of [Cloth] armor.
Healing skills effect +20%(Decreases cooldown of healing skills by 10%).

Plate Mastery: Defense
Allos you to equip [Plate] armor.
20% Physical Damage reduced when the player is equipped with 4 pieces of [Plate] armor.
Maximum Block Chance +10%(Damage Reduction rate +10% when block succeeds).

4 Likes

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THIRD TOPIC - COLLECTION
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I would like to suggest a rework in our currently collection system.

After IMC release Bounty Hunt I saw this new mechanic as a try to people play maps and I felt in the same way about the new currency Kingdom Reconstruction Coin.
The Kingdom Reconstruction is restricted to EP13 Areas, not obtainable on every map.

The Bounty hunter is pointless, you just rush through maps. You’re not playing in those maps, you’re just walking through them.

But if you add a 0 at the end of every bonus for each collection completed. This mechanic can become more attractive and make a few people farm those maps… and for who doesn’t want, they can buy… after all, is more stats…

Looks much more interesting in now days this values…

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FOURTH TOPIC - SECONDARY QUESTS
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  • 1 stat point for every 10 secondary quest completed.

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FIFTH TOPIC - MAP EXPLORATION QUESTS
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  • 10,000 Attribute Points Voucher for each map 100% explored (once per account).
    It’s a healthy way to improve alt characters and the common tab in Skills And Attributes Menu(F3).
5 Likes

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SIXTH TOPIC - MAP EXPLORATION QUESTS
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SWORDSMAN TREE

To be honest, I’m completely agree about shield users have less DPS than other JOBs. And I approved 100% the new attribute that reduces the shield defense to 0 in exchange for more DMG output.

What I don’t understand is why it’s so punitive the use of defensive buffs in sword tree. A few offensive buffs is punitive as well for swordsman. But in other trees they don’t cause any disadvantage…

Evasion buffs from scout’s tree doesn’t reduce their output dmg or increases the damage received when they get hit. So why swords have their movement speed HALVED, critical chances 25% reduced, final damage dealt 20% reduced, evasion 25% reduced. To get +50% block, chance +25% critical resistance, 10% block dmg reduction. It’s not fair…

TOMORROW I’M GOING TO FINISH THIS POST, IT’S 4:50AM FOR ME, I’M GOING TO SLEEP, PLEASE WAIT

2 Likes

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SEVENTH TOPIC - HELMET SYSTEM
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Let’s take Cassis Crita from Murmillo as example…
+Resisting debuff increases by 50%.
+Stun duration is halved (useless, especially for PvE purposes).
-5 Movement Speed.
-25% Evasion.
Looks worth? Without mention that you can’t combine this tree with other jobs that have their dmg boost on their helmets, like Dragoon… Or even worse, the new class Luchador, wears their own helmet, you can’t use Luchador skills without wear the helmet of this class.

I would like to suggest to remove their helmets skills and add a combat instance skill instead. For example:

Murmillo

Blood And Sand Instance - Increases the chance of resisting debuff by 50%. While using 1H-Sword increases the final damage of Murmillo Skills by 15%. (22.5% with attributes). Sword skills inflicts blood debuff. Shield skills inflicts sand debuff.

Blood debuff: Targets affect with blood debuff have their healing reduced in 10% per stack. Max 3 stacks.
Sand debuff: Targets affected with sand debuff have their evasion reduced in 10% per stack. Max 3 stacks.

And IMC can use the same for the other helmet skills, dragoon’s helm can cause a debuff that reduces enemies block chance, luchador’s mask can reduces the enemy offset or critical resistance, ram muay ignores a small % of enemy defenses as example…

Each build is aiming to have advantage against an specific enemy in PvP and have a dmg steroid in PvE. Specially on Weekly Boss (I’m tired to see always the same builds on top rank).

And about the helmets itself… Uses it as a Class Special Costume.

3 Likes

First five points in order:

Elements/Armor/Weapon don’t matter since instanced raid content has no armor and equal pdef/mdef.

Leather is good, but not as strong as you think, it’s just that in a PVE with almost no risk of dying there’s no point in extra defenses. The cloth/plate passives are really strong in PVP tho.

They said collections wouldn’t be buffed to avoid forcing everyone into doing them.

What i just said applies to the secondary quest thing you said.

You can farm gabija/orders by killing monsters in ashaq and convert them to attributes, no need for this mechanic.

I think you do not got the point, what I asking for, is to get my DMG TYPE based on MY WEAPON, to clarify: Disarm Skill (requires spear and damage type = strike) doesn’t gain any extra damage based on my increase pierce dmg by %, doesn’t get any bonus from my Sorsha Hutton Card, And the increased dmg received by 1h-spear when caught by pull/throw rete it’s not applied as well because, Disarm is a strike-type skill.
No, they don’t are strong, they’re currently working under 75% of dmg reduction for GTW, and they don’t do their job on TBL, because the dmg get increased SO HIGH with the time running out, that you can get deleted with a single skill now days…

That perspective it’s pretty awesome, that is exactly what i’m trying to fight against. They always kill their previous content, and then IMC left behind a useless or bad developed mechanic. Around lvl ~380 IMC is literally forced to give everything to players to fill this gap instead of give them a way to get there by themselves… You got over 200 maps to explore, and you play around 6 and a few raids, while you have this incredible world that could be explored without being considered a “waste of time”. Please, I’m not trying to be rude and my English is not the best. I just want to my “public” also get a bit more attention that is related to explore to game, instead of being playing the same map/instance over and over again. Thank you.

2 Likes

I 100% agree collections need a buff. They said they don’t want to force people into doing them, but then they went ahead and added costume collections… which give much more stats and take a long time (or lots of materials) to complete.

As for bounty hunts, I think the content by itself is fine, but the rewards are very discouraging. Sure, you get that ‘rush’ in the rare case you receive an A or S rank - but knowing ~85% of the time the rewards will be bad doesn’t make want to continue running more bounties.

I agree, and thankfully Imc has already done that to the dragoon helmet in ktos… now here’s hoping they do that to the Luchador mask and Murm’s Cassis Crista too…

1 Like

Regarding armor types. It would be more interesting to add a new attribute option within every advancement class in a ‘pick one’ system. Lemme do an example.

Murmillo
Tactical Mastery - Murmillo → -0.2% incoming damage per HP% loss, +0.2% damage dealt per HP% loss. Effect is capped at 25% HP (-15% damage received and +15% damage dealt).
Shield Mastery - Murmillo → Strike damage +20%.
One Handed Sword Mastery - Murmillo → Accuracy +35%, block penetration +20%.
Leather Mastery - Murmillo → Max HP +15%.
Helmet Mastery - Murmillo → -10% Incoming damage, critical resistance +50%

If you pick the class, you can select one of these to use at time per advanced class (similar to old joint penalty attributes), with the ability to switch between them at will whenever you want, if the conditions are met. As such, you won’t be able to use one handed sword attribute with a spear or rapier build, and the same applies to the shield attribute if the build is pierce heavy. Another interesting point is that other classes attributes may gain priority over your current option, like a cloth mastery attribute for fencer that gives evasion, offering a better reason to use it over leather or plate (if the final combination works better).

Edit: Ideally, this should be a feature for every class in the game, not swordsman exclusive. Even better if every class had a non-weapon exclusive option for skill points, so you may take these attributes as an additional reason to use certain classes. But we’re talking about IMC so… no hopes (though they seem to be trying hard with the latest classes).

Edit 2: I listed 5 attributes for Murmillo but that doesn’t mean each class needs 5. It should work with a minimum of 3 (tactical, weapon and armor) for every class, and have some few classes with extra attributes (like mount, companion or a second weapon). It doesn’t matter how many options each class provide as long as you are limited to pick a single one at time.

There’s no need for that, just buff the related skills to the corresponding values and remove the stance. Helmets should be cosmetics and, at most, have some interaction with attributes.

1 Like

Do you know a way that your ideas could reach until IMC? Because looks like almost everybody got a solution aiming to the same objective. I tough about try to create a nexon account to post in ktos forum, but I’m not smart enough to do it kkkk

only way is to become a whale on ktos

Bounty Hunt is the way to get aether gems. You are supposed to rush through the maps as quickly as possible to find and defeat the target within the time limit. Then you can level up the gems in the Remnants of Bernice dungeon.

I agree about the Collection bonuses though. They need to scale with the overall character growth potential in order to remain relevant. Same with the Title bonuses. Maybe introduce a multi-title system, similar to what they have in Monster Hunter World where you can combine words to make your own titles. Keep the general bonus more or less the way it is, but have each title also give something specific that is beneficial to certain characters, since you can choose say 3 different ones.

There are too many secondary quests to have them each give +1 stat point , but for certain secondary quest lines it would be good. Maybe an additional 10 points.

Attribute points for Exploration rewards is a great idea. Much greater value than EXP cards. I’m max level with a ton of EXP cards in my inventory that are completely pointless right now. I’m holding on to them in anticipation that the level cap will increase, but they serve no purpose at the moment.